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Given the outsized effect of flags in comparison to upvotes, I’m of the opinion that Chinese national HN members, and some subset of “no politics evar” crowd is

Given the outsized effect of flags in comparison to upvotes, I’m of the opinion that Chinese national HN members, and some subset of “no politics evar” crowd is more than enough to flag these to just shy of being dead.

JPKab 5y ago
Legitimate criticism of the CCP results in rather intense flagging. I'm no angel and I've definitely made comments that deserved flagging on HN and I really try hard to play by the rules that dang sets, but it's a rather clear pattern that certain subjects solicit pretty intense flagging despite not really being "nationalistic flame bait". In case dang sees this I hope I'm not violating further rules of service I'm just simply trying to point something out, that is absolutely relevant to this discussion.
- xenocratus 5y ago
  Even then, mods can override those flags, which in this case seems to not be happening. Especially given the [dupe] designation on another post
  - JPKab 5y ago
    What I'm curious about is why I'm not able to flag comments. I have 8633 karma yet users with a much lower number appear to be able to flag comments. I'm assuming I lost this privilege because I had comments that were flagged?
    - grzm 5y ago
      When you click on a comment timestamp to view an individual comment, do you see a flag link? If not, you might want to contact the mods to see if there is something else going on.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  When you see that happening, vouch for the post or the article.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    In addition to the potential for being vouched for - it's also important to remember that brigading on HN has a very limited effect on account karma overall. If you end up being on the sharp end of the stick at least you can take some comfort in only ever losing six points of karma... well unless your comment was atrocious enough to get you a ban from the mods.
  - xvector 5y ago
    You can’t vouch until the post is dead, meaning that a small number of people can put a post into flagged purgatory and no one can do anything about it until enough people holler for the mods
- jopsen 5y ago
  Don't we all know that the CCP employs agents to flag critical content. Do we have any reason to think said agents aren't active here?
  - wonnage 5y ago
    I don't think this sort of baseless speculation is useful. God forbid a Chinese citizen support their own government without being an agent or brainwashed. Way to deny a billion people the agency to disagree with you. Flagged this comment; US citizen, btw
    - int_19h 5y ago
      OP didn't say that there aren't any Chinese citizens who genuinely support their own government - only that said government is well-known for organized brigading by its agents. Including in China itself, I must add, so it affects plenty of Chinese citizens, too.
    - jopsen 5y ago
      > God forbid a Chinese citizen support their own government. Does flagging stories highlighting "tank man" search results count as "supporting the Chinese government"? That's a weird kind of "support". I think you can be impressed by the economic progress China has through without denying reality. Indeed, I do respect that such economic progress certainly isn't a given.
    - JPKab 5y ago
      When you say support their own government you should remember that it's not their own government. They don't have any choice in who represents them unless they are one of the 9% of the population that is a member of the CCP.
      - int_19h 5y ago
        Rank and file CCP members don't really get any meaningful choice, either - intraparty governance be nominally democratic, but in practice it's as much of a sham as outside of it. The only way you can have a say is by making a party career to some position that actually matters, which very few members will achieve. The rest are there solely to signal their loyalty and get the associated benefits (or lack of handicaps).
Pet_Ant 5y ago
I'm a member of “no politics evar” crowd, but I feel like both deliberate digital censorship AND artificial tweaks to search results are valid topics. I hope this was the result of a rogue actor rather than a corporate decision.
- tpmx 5y ago
  I just hope they don't say it was just a mistake ("glitch") that has now been fixed, like: "Because of a mistake a configuration change meant for some only some regions was also applied to Bing US. This has now been fixed." (To be clear, I just made this up.) Edit: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-bing-raises-concerns-over-lack-image-results-tiananmen-tank-man-2021-06-04/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-bing-raises-con... Actual quote: Microsoft said the issue was "due to an accidental human error and we are actively working to resolve this."
  - ColinHayhurst 5y ago
    "A significant percentage of the Microsoft employees who work on Bing are based in China, including some who work on image-recognition software, according to a former employee."
  - iso1631 5y ago
    A Microsoft spokesperson tells me that "accidental human error" is to blame for missing images of "tank man" on its Bing search results. "We are actively working to resolve this." The incident comes on the 32nd anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre. https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1400906032176640004?s=20 https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1400906032176640004?...
- a1369209993 5y ago
  > I'm a member of "no politics evar" crowd, but I feel like both deliberate digital censorship AND artificial tweaks to search results are valid topics. Ditto.
dang 5y ago
Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. You have no idea the sort of pressure that users with minority perspectives because of their national/ethnic backgrounds are under on this majority-Western forum. People have literally been hounded off this site after getting attacked for this. Is that the kind of community you, or any of us, want to be part of? Of course it is not. Therefore, don't include swipes like that in your comments here, and remember that other users are just as human as you are, even if they have different backgrounds than you do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20-recycling%20chin&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
- KirillPanov 5y ago
  > Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the Communist Party of China.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > There is nothing wrong with criticizing the Communist Party of China. There is, OTOH, something very wrong with equating Chinese national HN users with the Communist Party of China, and your comment that dang responded to about nationalistic attacks was explictly directed at the former, not the latter, and defending it as the latter draws an inappropriate equivalence.
    - 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
      I didn't interpret the comment that way. I read it as a squares-are-rectangles comment, not a rectangles-are-squares comment. Normal people on HN who support the CCP are likely to be chinese nationals, even if the converse isn't true. There are probably enough normal people who support the CCP here to flag a post, which is how I read the comment.

JPKab 5y ago

Legitimate criticism of the CCP results in rather intense flagging. I'm no angel and I've definitely made comments that deserved flagging on HN and I really try hard to play by the rules that dang sets, but it's a rather clear pattern that certain subjects solicit pretty intense flagging despite not really being "nationalistic flame bait". In case dang sees this I hope I'm not violating further rules of service I'm just simply trying to point something out, that is absolutely relevant to this discussion.

xenocratus 5y ago
Even then, mods can override those flags, which in this case seems to not be happening. Especially given the [dupe] designation on another post
- JPKab 5y ago
  What I'm curious about is why I'm not able to flag comments. I have 8633 karma yet users with a much lower number appear to be able to flag comments. I'm assuming I lost this privilege because I had comments that were flagged?
  - grzm 5y ago
    When you click on a comment timestamp to view an individual comment, do you see a flag link? If not, you might want to contact the mods to see if there is something else going on.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
When you see that happening, vouch for the post or the article.
- munk-a 5y ago
  In addition to the potential for being vouched for - it's also important to remember that brigading on HN has a very limited effect on account karma overall. If you end up being on the sharp end of the stick at least you can take some comfort in only ever losing six points of karma... well unless your comment was atrocious enough to get you a ban from the mods.
- xvector 5y ago
  You can’t vouch until the post is dead, meaning that a small number of people can put a post into flagged purgatory and no one can do anything about it until enough people holler for the mods
jopsen 5y ago
Don't we all know that the CCP employs agents to flag critical content. Do we have any reason to think said agents aren't active here?
- wonnage 5y ago
  I don't think this sort of baseless speculation is useful. God forbid a Chinese citizen support their own government without being an agent or brainwashed. Way to deny a billion people the agency to disagree with you. Flagged this comment; US citizen, btw
  - int_19h 5y ago
    OP didn't say that there aren't any Chinese citizens who genuinely support their own government - only that said government is well-known for organized brigading by its agents. Including in China itself, I must add, so it affects plenty of Chinese citizens, too.
  - jopsen 5y ago
    > God forbid a Chinese citizen support their own government. Does flagging stories highlighting "tank man" search results count as "supporting the Chinese government"? That's a weird kind of "support". I think you can be impressed by the economic progress China has through without denying reality. Indeed, I do respect that such economic progress certainly isn't a given.
  - JPKab 5y ago
    When you say support their own government you should remember that it's not their own government. They don't have any choice in who represents them unless they are one of the 9% of the population that is a member of the CCP.
    - int_19h 5y ago
      Rank and file CCP members don't really get any meaningful choice, either - intraparty governance be nominally democratic, but in practice it's as much of a sham as outside of it. The only way you can have a say is by making a party career to some position that actually matters, which very few members will achieve. The rest are there solely to signal their loyalty and get the associated benefits (or lack of handicaps).

Pet_Ant 5y ago

I'm a member of “no politics evar” crowd, but I feel like both deliberate digital censorship AND artificial tweaks to search results are valid topics. I hope this was the result of a rogue actor rather than a corporate decision.

tpmx 5y ago
I just hope they don't say it was just a mistake ("glitch") that has now been fixed, like: "Because of a mistake a configuration change meant for some only some regions was also applied to Bing US. This has now been fixed." (To be clear, I just made this up.) Edit: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-bing-raises-concerns-over-lack-image-results-tiananmen-tank-man-2021-06-04/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-bing-raises-con... Actual quote: Microsoft said the issue was "due to an accidental human error and we are actively working to resolve this."
- ColinHayhurst 5y ago
  "A significant percentage of the Microsoft employees who work on Bing are based in China, including some who work on image-recognition software, according to a former employee."
- iso1631 5y ago
  A Microsoft spokesperson tells me that "accidental human error" is to blame for missing images of "tank man" on its Bing search results. "We are actively working to resolve this." The incident comes on the 32nd anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre. https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1400906032176640004?s=20 https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1400906032176640004?...
a1369209993 5y ago
> I'm a member of "no politics evar" crowd, but I feel like both deliberate digital censorship AND artificial tweaks to search results are valid topics. Ditto.

dang 5y ago

Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. You have no idea the sort of pressure that users with minority perspectives because of their national/ethnic backgrounds are under on this majority-Western forum. People have literally been hounded off this site after getting attacked for this. Is that the kind of community you, or any of us, want to be part of? Of course it is not. Therefore, don't include swipes like that in your comments here, and remember that other users are just as human as you are, even if they have different backgrounds than you do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20-recycling%20chin&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

KirillPanov 5y ago
> Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the Communist Party of China.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > There is nothing wrong with criticizing the Communist Party of China. There is, OTOH, something very wrong with equating Chinese national HN users with the Communist Party of China, and your comment that dang responded to about nationalistic attacks was explictly directed at the former, not the latter, and defending it as the latter draws an inappropriate equivalence.
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
    I didn't interpret the comment that way. I read it as a squares-are-rectangles comment, not a rectangles-are-squares comment. Normal people on HN who support the CCP are likely to be chinese nationals, even if the converse isn't true. There are probably enough normal people who support the CCP here to flag a post, which is how I read the comment.