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Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? If you disagree with something your c

by 0xFFFE 5y ago

Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? If you disagree with something your colleagues or the company you work for, just quit and find another job. In my humble opinion, there is a place for expressing/speaking up about the things you care about, but workplace is not one of it. You have no locus standi.

alpaca128 5y ago
It's difficult when the company itself decides to be political. Acting like professionals and having official channels talk about ethnicity ratios is not very compatible: > Medium said that 52% of departures were white, and that one third of the company is non-white and non-Asian.
tayo42 5y ago
America atleast created a society where life revolves around corporations. Your job is a big part of your identify. Corporations are part of your identity in general. Your a McDonald's or a burger king person, coke or Pepsi. private corporations run America. I think it's only natural for people to express them selves through their work
chasd00 5y ago
I think younger workers bought the lifestyle pitch of their employer hook, line, and sinker. They see the office (virtual or otherwise) as a part of their identity.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Right. Companies insist employees believe in the mission. Employees insist on a mission they can believe in.
- adrr 5y ago
  It’s hard to get employees to work 60+ hour work weeks if they aren’t bought into the company mission. It is very effective to blur work and life lines to get workers to put in the extra hours.
wildrhythms 5y ago
The workplace is inherently political; it consumes the vast majority of workers' waking hours for years, and decades. Corporations have vast, measurable influence in peoples lives, both good and bad. Why are the workers, to you, not permitted the agency to bring politics to work?
- hn8788 5y ago
  > The workplace is inherently political; it consumes the vast majority of workers' waking hours for years, and decades. Where are people working where the vast majority of their waking hours, for decades, are spent at work? At least be honest, these articles about bringing politics to work are talking about people in comfy tech jobs working 8 hours a day, not wage slaves in coal mines and factories working 12 hour days.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    "Vast majority" might be an overstatement, but if you work an 8-hour day, commute for an hour each way, and take an hour for lunch (which, let's face it, is often with co-workers and involves work talk), that's 11 hours doing things that you probably wouldn't be doing if you didn't have to work. If we assume 8 hours of sleep, that's only 5 waking, non-work-related hours. It's... pretty lame, honestly. All these modern conveniences and we're working more than ever these days (in the US, at least). Also not really sure where all these "comfy tech jobs" are; every tech job I've worked in the past 15+ years often has people working ~10 hour days. I'm not aware of many people in tech who work 9-5 and that's it.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      To be fair, these jobs do exist in a sizable amount. I’ve almost never worked more than 40hrs/week and have short commute times. (Lunch is included in my working hours) I’ve seen many places where people work potentially less hours than I do during certain seasons. I’m a pretty productive employee (when I want to be and feel incentivized) and am paid well enough to be in the 1%. I still agree with what you said. Just want to say that these jobs exist. It’s up to the employee to fight for it though more than anything. Many employees in tech are a bit of pushovers though. (Or are afraid of losing their visa)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? Some people have made these things part of their core identity.
tootie 5y ago
I very strongly disagree. No one is asking their companies to stand up for trade policy or any wonky stuff outside their business. It's almost entirely about representation and discrimination. Things are part of everyone's everyday lives and things very much in every company's power to resolve. I think the notion that companies should only care about their bottom line is the thing that needs to end. Returning profits for shareholders isn't enough. Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not?
- insert_coin 5y ago
  > Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not? Then this is perfect, they can leave and find a job that does reflect their values. They should've quitted right when they realized their values weren't aligned but I guess they valued a severance package more. Still, win-win.
- joegahona 5y ago
  > Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not? Because employees don’t all have the same values.
  - tootie 5y ago
    Maybe because it's not allowed to be discussed openly. My company has absolutely let rip on political discussions and it's been pretty healthy. Nobody doesn't want diversity. It's purely a question of what we do about it.
    - nathanaldensr 5y ago
      > Nobody doesn't want diversity. How do you know? Do you think everyone is being honest with you when they appear to state their opinions, knowing that saying the wrong thing could get them canceled? Are you naive enough to believe all humans are truthful?
      - 5y ago
overgard 5y ago
I think a lot of these people don't bring much to the table professionally, so they use woke call out culture to implicitly threaten those around them to treat them with kid gloves and give them a wide birth. I doubt these companies feel that sad when people like that leave.
- xwdv 5y ago
  I think there is something to this theory IMO. Time spent being an activist is essentially time not spent honing your craft.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    As opposed to the people who spend their time just meandering on Reddit/HN in various non-technical posts...? I think it’s a bad argument to say that those who aren’t activists are also those are who better at their jobs because those who don’t do activism must be spending their time honing their craft. Just because you’re doing one not doing one activity doesn’t mean you’re doing one other. The set of activities that exist is not (activism, honing craft) - it is a much bigger set of possibilities.
- chickenmonkey 5y ago
  This is a broad generalisation without supporting evidence - not sure if this helps improve the quality of the discussion. Can you substantiate your statement further?
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    There's research that shows woke signalling is highly correlated with both psychopathic traits and narcissistic traits. The correlation is around 0.3-0.5. That's evidence that it's used actively as a tool to gain either social status or something else.
    - infinitezest 5y ago
      Do you happen to have a link to that research handy?
protomyth 5y ago
I blame the long hours and dying of outside of work social groups. Churches and "bowling league"-style activities probably kept it out of work fairly efficiently.
ViViDboarder 5y ago
> If you disagree with something your colleagues or the company you work for, just quit and find another job. On the flip side, why should you? Companies and cultures are made of people and they change as people change. Why should you just quit before trying to institute change? When I hire people, I generally look for people who don’t accept the status quo as inherently right and try to solve problems.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  > When I hire people, I generally look for people who don’t accept the status quo as inherently right and try to solve problems. There are limits to this aren’t there? I too am a fan of contrarianism, but at some point — depending entirely on the context and the role of the employee — self-indulgent contrarianism becomes counterproductive.
LegitShady 5y ago
>Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? It's not a question of how difficult it is. Their goal is literally the opposite. Everything is a platform for political discussion, identity, etc. Work, culture, art, etc. It's totally possible to have a workplace you describe, but when people view everything as a platform for activism they don't want that. They want the platform.

by 0xFFFE 5y ago

alpaca128 5y ago

It's difficult when the company itself decides to be political. Acting like professionals and having official channels talk about ethnicity ratios is not very compatible: > Medium said that 52% of departures were white, and that one third of the company is non-white and non-Asian.

tayo42 5y ago

America atleast created a society where life revolves around corporations. Your job is a big part of your identify. Corporations are part of your identity in general. Your a McDonald's or a burger king person, coke or Pepsi. private corporations run America. I think it's only natural for people to express them selves through their work

chasd00 5y ago

I think younger workers bought the lifestyle pitch of their employer hook, line, and sinker. They see the office (virtual or otherwise) as a part of their identity.

pseudalopex 5y ago
Right. Companies insist employees believe in the mission. Employees insist on a mission they can believe in.
adrr 5y ago
It’s hard to get employees to work 60+ hour work weeks if they aren’t bought into the company mission. It is very effective to blur work and life lines to get workers to put in the extra hours.

wildrhythms 5y ago

The workplace is inherently political; it consumes the vast majority of workers' waking hours for years, and decades. Corporations have vast, measurable influence in peoples lives, both good and bad. Why are the workers, to you, not permitted the agency to bring politics to work?

hn8788 5y ago
> The workplace is inherently political; it consumes the vast majority of workers' waking hours for years, and decades. Where are people working where the vast majority of their waking hours, for decades, are spent at work? At least be honest, these articles about bringing politics to work are talking about people in comfy tech jobs working 8 hours a day, not wage slaves in coal mines and factories working 12 hour days.
- kelnos 5y ago
  "Vast majority" might be an overstatement, but if you work an 8-hour day, commute for an hour each way, and take an hour for lunch (which, let's face it, is often with co-workers and involves work talk), that's 11 hours doing things that you probably wouldn't be doing if you didn't have to work. If we assume 8 hours of sleep, that's only 5 waking, non-work-related hours. It's... pretty lame, honestly. All these modern conveniences and we're working more than ever these days (in the US, at least). Also not really sure where all these "comfy tech jobs" are; every tech job I've worked in the past 15+ years often has people working ~10 hour days. I'm not aware of many people in tech who work 9-5 and that's it.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    To be fair, these jobs do exist in a sizable amount. I’ve almost never worked more than 40hrs/week and have short commute times. (Lunch is included in my working hours) I’ve seen many places where people work potentially less hours than I do during certain seasons. I’m a pretty productive employee (when I want to be and feel incentivized) and am paid well enough to be in the 1%. I still agree with what you said. Just want to say that these jobs exist. It’s up to the employee to fight for it though more than anything. Many employees in tech are a bit of pushovers though. (Or are afraid of losing their visa)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? Some people have made these things part of their core identity.

tootie 5y ago

I very strongly disagree. No one is asking their companies to stand up for trade policy or any wonky stuff outside their business. It's almost entirely about representation and discrimination. Things are part of everyone's everyday lives and things very much in every company's power to resolve. I think the notion that companies should only care about their bottom line is the thing that needs to end. Returning profits for shareholders isn't enough. Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not?

insert_coin 5y ago
> Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not? Then this is perfect, they can leave and find a job that does reflect their values. They should've quitted right when they realized their values weren't aligned but I guess they valued a severance package more. Still, win-win.
joegahona 5y ago
> Employees have started to think that who they work for should reflect their values. And why not? Because employees don’t all have the same values.
- tootie 5y ago
  Maybe because it's not allowed to be discussed openly. My company has absolutely let rip on political discussions and it's been pretty healthy. Nobody doesn't want diversity. It's purely a question of what we do about it.
  - nathanaldensr 5y ago
    > Nobody doesn't want diversity. How do you know? Do you think everyone is being honest with you when they appear to state their opinions, knowing that saying the wrong thing could get them canceled? Are you naive enough to believe all humans are truthful?
    - 5y ago

overgard 5y ago

I think a lot of these people don't bring much to the table professionally, so they use woke call out culture to implicitly threaten those around them to treat them with kid gloves and give them a wide birth. I doubt these companies feel that sad when people like that leave.

xwdv 5y ago
I think there is something to this theory IMO. Time spent being an activist is essentially time not spent honing your craft.
- bradlys 5y ago
  As opposed to the people who spend their time just meandering on Reddit/HN in various non-technical posts...? I think it’s a bad argument to say that those who aren’t activists are also those are who better at their jobs because those who don’t do activism must be spending their time honing their craft. Just because you’re doing one not doing one activity doesn’t mean you’re doing one other. The set of activities that exist is not (activism, honing craft) - it is a much bigger set of possibilities.
chickenmonkey 5y ago
This is a broad generalisation without supporting evidence - not sure if this helps improve the quality of the discussion. Can you substantiate your statement further?
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  There's research that shows woke signalling is highly correlated with both psychopathic traits and narcissistic traits. The correlation is around 0.3-0.5. That's evidence that it's used actively as a tool to gain either social status or something else.
  - infinitezest 5y ago
    Do you happen to have a link to that research handy?

protomyth 5y ago

I blame the long hours and dying of outside of work social groups. Churches and "bowling league"-style activities probably kept it out of work fairly efficiently.

ViViDboarder 5y ago

> If you disagree with something your colleagues or the company you work for, just quit and find another job. On the flip side, why should you? Companies and cultures are made of people and they change as people change. Why should you just quit before trying to institute change? When I hire people, I generally look for people who don’t accept the status quo as inherently right and try to solve problems.

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
> When I hire people, I generally look for people who don’t accept the status quo as inherently right and try to solve problems. There are limits to this aren’t there? I too am a fan of contrarianism, but at some point — depending entirely on the context and the role of the employee — self-indulgent contrarianism becomes counterproductive.

LegitShady 5y ago

>Why is it difficult to keep the political leanings, opinions, activism away from the workplace and act like professionals? It's not a question of how difficult it is. Their goal is literally the opposite. Everything is a platform for political discussion, identity, etc. Work, culture, art, etc. It's totally possible to have a workplace you describe, but when people view everything as a platform for activism they don't want that. They want the platform.