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> And the largest piece of hubris and madness in critical systems is allowing over-the-internet updates. What would you suggest in its place? You'd need to re

by MR4D 5y ago

> And the largest piece of hubris and madness in critical systems is allowing over-the-internet updates. What would you suggest in its place? You'd need to replace the internet with something - postal mail, Fedex, courier deliveries, etc, or just have things that never get upgraded. Every one of those options has significant limitations, and in many countries, I'd trust SSL over postal mail every single day. I think if you alter the wording to be "more-secure internet deliveries" then you'll have me agreeing with you, but unless I've missed something, your comment seems poorly aimed (which is odd, as your previous example of the root password is spot-on).

WalterBright 5y ago
For critical systems, I suggest using a usb drive. Do you really want a missile guidance system update-able over the internet? How about the auto drive system on your car? What about the code that keeps track of accounts in your bank? Don't forget the code that keeps the pipeline running!
- MR4D 5y ago
  How do you get the usb drive to the user ?
salawat 5y ago
Note, the American postal service got it's reputation for reliability among the citizenry (which has been soiled by hostile management and politics in recent years) in part because the U.S. government was willing to back it with men with guns. The Marines were tasked seeing that mail was delivered, or dying in the process. This was incredibly effective at the time to the point that even today, no one even considers attacking the post a realistic option despite the withdrawal of armed forces from active involvement. The Internet has a two-fold issue. A) It's fundamental ideation was an interconnected network of trusted nodes, with a self-healing capability to facilitate C&C continuity in case of nuclear attack. All protocols have underneath them that starting assumption. There is an entirely unexplored depth of "authorization/security first" computer networking practice out there waiting to be enumerated, instead of trying to bolt-on security mechanisms to what is already built without an ideation of distrust built in from the get-go. It's just so wildly impractical to implement, and undesirable to at least the Western philosophical foundation to free by default expression that it's not a natural thing to wrap one's head around. B ) What are you gonna do to me? I'm behind 7000 proxies in different jurisdictions that work fundamentally different from yours and are unlikely to cooperate with your projection of power! In short, it's a people problem, not a technical one. To the degree it is a technical one, the middle-boxes hold everything back <shakes fist>.

by MR4D 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

For critical systems, I suggest using a usb drive. Do you really want a missile guidance system update-able over the internet? How about the auto drive system on your car? What about the code that keeps track of accounts in your bank? Don't forget the code that keeps the pipeline running!

MR4D 5y ago
How do you get the usb drive to the user ?

salawat 5y ago

Note, the American postal service got it's reputation for reliability among the citizenry (which has been soiled by hostile management and politics in recent years) in part because the U.S. government was willing to back it with men with guns. The Marines were tasked seeing that mail was delivered, or dying in the process. This was incredibly effective at the time to the point that even today, no one even considers attacking the post a realistic option despite the withdrawal of armed forces from active involvement. The Internet has a two-fold issue. A) It's fundamental ideation was an interconnected network of trusted nodes, with a self-healing capability to facilitate C&C continuity in case of nuclear attack. All protocols have underneath them that starting assumption. There is an entirely unexplored depth of "authorization/security first" computer networking practice out there waiting to be enumerated, instead of trying to bolt-on security mechanisms to what is already built without an ideation of distrust built in from the get-go. It's just so wildly impractical to implement, and undesirable to at least the Western philosophical foundation to free by default expression that it's not a natural thing to wrap one's head around. B ) What are you gonna do to me? I'm behind 7000 proxies in different jurisdictions that work fundamentally different from yours and are unlikely to cooperate with your projection of power! In short, it's a people problem, not a technical one. To the degree it is a technical one, the middle-boxes hold everything back <shakes fist>.