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My career specialty is deployment at the 10^5 scale and I'd argue that Python has no business on Production systems. Heck, I'm a former career Rubyist and I'd

My career specialty is deployment at the 10^5 scale and I'd argue that Python has no business on Production systems. Heck, I'm a former career Rubyist and I'd say the same there too. At a certain point statically linked binaries are going to make several classes of hard problems to solve disappear entirely and is IMO baseline criteria for operating at this level. BEAM at least has some compelling features working in its favor that make it worth exploring operationally, but also it doesn't really operate at that very large scale. It's well-adapted for smaller scale systems.

joelbluminator 5y ago
> I'd argue that Python has no business on Production systems Well yes you would argue, you did. That doesn't make your argument true or important.
- busterarm 5y ago
  Sorry, but at this scale of systems and how often you're replacing hosts, it's absolutely critical that you always have a deployable. That's not provably true in the Python ecosystem (unless you're insane and vendoring all of your dependencies separately for every single application you deploy). At the end of the day what you need is a statically linked binary. There are tools like cx_freeze and Nuitka that try and get you there but ultimately aren't worth the effort and give you other problems to solve as well. Or you could use cython, but again, more problems. You're simply better off using a language that reduces your (business) risks from the onset. I'm sorry that that makes you feel bad, but that's facts and anyone working at this scale will tell you so. We pretty much only deal with Python where we have to (in the ML space). If a company is really stubborn about it though it's often better to just not take those jobs.
strzibny 5y ago
> It's well-adapted for smaller scale systems. I wonder what they switch to at WhatsApp when they become medium scale.
- busterarm 5y ago
  Hey. I write Elixir & Erlang sometimes too. I'm an Erlang Ecosystem Foundation member. There are very real and well-known scalability limits of Erlang clusters and applications that run in them. This isn't someone talking shit, but instead just operating within the limitations imposed by reality. Message passing has overhead -- it's not free. WhatsApp probably doesn't need nearly as much hardware as you think.

joelbluminator 5y ago

> I'd argue that Python has no business on Production systems Well yes you would argue, you did. That doesn't make your argument true or important.

busterarm 5y ago
Sorry, but at this scale of systems and how often you're replacing hosts, it's absolutely critical that you always have a deployable. That's not provably true in the Python ecosystem (unless you're insane and vendoring all of your dependencies separately for every single application you deploy). At the end of the day what you need is a statically linked binary. There are tools like cx_freeze and Nuitka that try and get you there but ultimately aren't worth the effort and give you other problems to solve as well. Or you could use cython, but again, more problems. You're simply better off using a language that reduces your (business) risks from the onset. I'm sorry that that makes you feel bad, but that's facts and anyone working at this scale will tell you so. We pretty much only deal with Python where we have to (in the ML space). If a company is really stubborn about it though it's often better to just not take those jobs.

strzibny 5y ago

> It's well-adapted for smaller scale systems. I wonder what they switch to at WhatsApp when they become medium scale.

busterarm 5y ago
Hey. I write Elixir & Erlang sometimes too. I'm an Erlang Ecosystem Foundation member. There are very real and well-known scalability limits of Erlang clusters and applications that run in them. This isn't someone talking shit, but instead just operating within the limitations imposed by reality. Message passing has overhead -- it's not free. WhatsApp probably doesn't need nearly as much hardware as you think.