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I quite like the new design. I think the need for them to look like actual "tabs" like in a folder is overblown. Let's drop the skeuomorphism. The customizabil

I quite like the new design. I think the need for them to look like actual "tabs" like in a folder is overblown. Let's drop the skeuomorphism. The customizability in Firefox is great, but the example in the link is... well, to each their own.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
Linking two related UI elements isn't a "skeuomorph". It is an element of design. A skeuomorph is when you try to make a UI look like a physical object: adding paper grain to the background of a word processor, or making a time app look like a stopwatch.
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
  More generally, a skeuomorph is when a derivative uses design elements for decoration that were functionally necessary in the original. Paper grain in the background of a word processor is one example of a skeuomorph — but so are spokes on hubcaps, electric lights shaped like candles and the shutter sound your phone plays when it takes a picture.
- multiplegeorges 5y ago
  > A skeuomorph is when you try to make a UI look like a physical object Agreed, and the linked article specifically themes their tabs to look like a file folder, with a reminiscent color and rounded corners. The very concept of a tab that contains related information in it is a replication of the physical tabbed file folder. It's pretty much this: https://imgur.com/a/u2WgESW https://imgur.com/a/u2WgESW And that is largely a hold over from the concept of a physical desktop in an office. See: https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui-doesnt-work-anymore-d276271bfa40 https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui... It'd be nice for some new concepts to be introduced and refined.
  - layer8 5y ago
    IMO this is more about affordance than about skeuomorphism. The traditional tab strip UI is already an abstraction, because it has only two levels of depth (instead of each tab having a different depth like physical tabs) and you don’t see the stack of individual edges of each tab page. (There were skeuomorphic versions that actually did this.) The new Firefox design is lacking any clear affordance that would connect the tab button to the respective tab contents.
handrous 5y ago
Tab-look isn't skeuomorphism, the way it's used most places in computer UI—it indicates to the user which parts of the UI are associated with the tab, and so may be expected to change when the tab is switched.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Which is not the case of the UI element right under the tab bar ... because it's the toolbar / address bar. In earlier versions of Firefox, tabs used to be located under the toolbars hence they made sense as tabs. Only Safari kept this UX. I never understood why everybody copied this Chrome thing.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    The address bar does change. The status of tool bar items can change.
    - pjerem 5y ago
      That’s right, I’ve never thought about it. You’ve changed my mind on this.
  - playpause 5y ago
    It is a different location bar for every tab. Try typing some text into it and then switching tab and then back again.
    - pjerem 5y ago
      Yup. I’ve been wrong for years.
  - handrous 5y ago
    I can see reasons why a lot of things would go under the tab, like the address bar. FF's biggest UI-sensibility sin I know of (at least on the last design—I've not used the new one yet) is the damn hamburger menu. On desktop! That's a real WTF.
zamadatix 5y ago
I don't consider Photon a skeuomorphic design really. It was a grid based flat functional design with razor sharp edges. Australis on the other hand was absolutely skeuomorphic, color gradients to give pop-out with curved tabs to mimic real folder tabs and so on. If "the element is connected to the content it represents" is enough to make a design skeuomorphic then so be it but either way I don't think it's desired "because that's how real folders work" vs "I want to know which UI elements are related".
anoncake 5y ago
A tab bar should look like a tab bar. Even if that look historically is skeuomorphic. In the same way that a save button isn't labelled with a floppy disk icon anymore, but with the save icon.
Shorel 5y ago
I'm with you. It looks and feels FAST!
pdpi 5y ago
I don't like how skeuomorphism turned into a dirty word. A skeuomorph is just an unessential design cue a derivative takes from the original. They can be entirely ornamental (like the dumb faux leather of some of the latter day Jobs-era iOS apps), but they're quite useful as affordances. There's no particular technical reason why you'd prefer any one particular graphic design for tabs over another, but the separator-style tabs make the association between tab headers and contents much clearer than the new design. Likewise, there's a lot of value in the Numi/Soulver style of calculator apps for power users, but common users are better served by the skeuomorphic physical calculator design, which is perfectly functional and much more familiar to most (though this may change as younger generations are less and less exposed to traditional calculators).

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Linking two related UI elements isn't a "skeuomorph". It is an element of design. A skeuomorph is when you try to make a UI look like a physical object: adding paper grain to the background of a word processor, or making a time app look like a stopwatch.

jakelazaroff 5y ago
More generally, a skeuomorph is when a derivative uses design elements for decoration that were functionally necessary in the original. Paper grain in the background of a word processor is one example of a skeuomorph — but so are spokes on hubcaps, electric lights shaped like candles and the shutter sound your phone plays when it takes a picture.
multiplegeorges 5y ago
> A skeuomorph is when you try to make a UI look like a physical object Agreed, and the linked article specifically themes their tabs to look like a file folder, with a reminiscent color and rounded corners. The very concept of a tab that contains related information in it is a replication of the physical tabbed file folder. It's pretty much this: https://imgur.com/a/u2WgESW https://imgur.com/a/u2WgESW And that is largely a hold over from the concept of a physical desktop in an office. See: https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui-doesnt-work-anymore-d276271bfa40 https://onezero.medium.com/the-document-metaphor-desktop-gui... It'd be nice for some new concepts to be introduced and refined.
- layer8 5y ago
  IMO this is more about affordance than about skeuomorphism. The traditional tab strip UI is already an abstraction, because it has only two levels of depth (instead of each tab having a different depth like physical tabs) and you don’t see the stack of individual edges of each tab page. (There were skeuomorphic versions that actually did this.) The new Firefox design is lacking any clear affordance that would connect the tab button to the respective tab contents.

handrous 5y ago

Tab-look isn't skeuomorphism, the way it's used most places in computer UI—it indicates to the user which parts of the UI are associated with the tab, and so may be expected to change when the tab is switched.

pjerem 5y ago
Which is not the case of the UI element right under the tab bar ... because it's the toolbar / address bar. In earlier versions of Firefox, tabs used to be located under the toolbars hence they made sense as tabs. Only Safari kept this UX. I never understood why everybody copied this Chrome thing.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  The address bar does change. The status of tool bar items can change.
  - pjerem 5y ago
    That’s right, I’ve never thought about it. You’ve changed my mind on this.
- playpause 5y ago
  It is a different location bar for every tab. Try typing some text into it and then switching tab and then back again.
  - pjerem 5y ago
    Yup. I’ve been wrong for years.
- handrous 5y ago
  I can see reasons why a lot of things would go under the tab, like the address bar. FF's biggest UI-sensibility sin I know of (at least on the last design—I've not used the new one yet) is the damn hamburger menu. On desktop! That's a real WTF.

zamadatix 5y ago

I don't consider Photon a skeuomorphic design really. It was a grid based flat functional design with razor sharp edges. Australis on the other hand was absolutely skeuomorphic, color gradients to give pop-out with curved tabs to mimic real folder tabs and so on. If "the element is connected to the content it represents" is enough to make a design skeuomorphic then so be it but either way I don't think it's desired "because that's how real folders work" vs "I want to know which UI elements are related".

anoncake 5y ago

A tab bar should look like a tab bar. Even if that look historically is skeuomorphic. In the same way that a save button isn't labelled with a floppy disk icon anymore, but with the save icon.

Shorel 5y ago

I'm with you. It looks and feels FAST!

pdpi 5y ago

I don't like how skeuomorphism turned into a dirty word. A skeuomorph is just an unessential design cue a derivative takes from the original. They can be entirely ornamental (like the dumb faux leather of some of the latter day Jobs-era iOS apps), but they're quite useful as affordances. There's no particular technical reason why you'd prefer any one particular graphic design for tabs over another, but the separator-style tabs make the association between tab headers and contents much clearer than the new design. Likewise, there's a lot of value in the Numi/Soulver style of calculator apps for power users, but common users are better served by the skeuomorphic physical calculator design, which is perfectly functional and much more familiar to most (though this may change as younger generations are less and less exposed to traditional calculators).