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Nah. You should tell the truth on this topic, not only for normative reasons but also because it's going to come out anyway. The whole world is watching this vi

Nah. You should tell the truth on this topic, not only for normative reasons but also because it's going to come out anyway. The whole world is watching this virus. The next hegemonic rivalry in the world is already unfolding between China and the USA, and much of its battleground is found in the third world. Those countries are all evaluating the costs and benefits of aligning with China versus aligning with the United States. China and the USA are going to build up arms anyway, so why tell lies that benefit China?

corty 5y ago
I agree. A confrontation between the US and China, as well as China and its neighbors, is inevitable. There are just too many factors forcing this, Taiwan, the South China Sea, China's economic slowdown, USs' economic slowdown, the race for influence and resources in Africa and South America. Maybe (hopefully) it will just be another cold war. But being able to present China as the bad guy early on would be more valuable to the US than having China save face. The only exception to this would be if the US were of the opinion that more time was needed before a higher level of confrontation could be entered: in that case, appeasement and face-saving would buy time. However, I don't see how this could be the case, the US is bringing military resources back home within a few months, probably not to decomission them. US military strength and availability is currently at a peak. And China is still in the process of building up military strength, which will take time since their problem is old equipment to be replaced and new equipment to be built. So for the US, an early confrontation would be advantageous.
- fallingfrog 5y ago
  No, it’s not inevitable. That’s poisonous thinking. We can always de-escalate. That’s the kind of stupidity that led to the First World War, and the First World War led to the Second World War. None of it had to happen. There were always other options. Edit: We should immediately attack China because they’re a bunch of godless communists! The CCP is a murderous regime trying to develop biological weapons to murder everyone! Better to just have at it now while we still have the bigger army! Why not just use nukes! Every time anyone mentions China for any reason we just end up in the dumbest flame wars imaginable.
  - corty 5y ago
    No, we can't. Appeasement didn't help against Hitler, deescalation just gave him the Sudentenland and Austria "for free", strengthening Germany and prolonging the coming war. Deescalation only works if all sides actually do not want a conflict. But China still wants to incorporate Taiwan and the South China sea. I don't see how one could deescalate those. And deescalating by allowing China to annex, well, see above.
  - fallingfrog 5y ago
    The fact that war exists at all is psychotic and utterly baffling. Any member of the human race that ever argues for increasing a military budget needs years of intensive therapy. Militaries just shouldn’t exist. If they had never been invented nobody would see the need for them. Hitler and his whole horrible movement was the product of war. Ugh I just don’t know what’s wrong with people.
loopz 5y ago
That's politics, not science. Politicians absolutely have to play the game with China, or they lose face, and are themselves cornered into extreme measures. Playing the game badly could have worse reprecusions for all of us. Political skill and understanding of culture is crucial in this context. There's a saying, there's a time for everything. This pandemic is absolutely a Chernobyl moment, and all nations unprepared despite multiple warnings. Then it now need to become a moment for humbleness, not petty blame games.
deleted 5y ago
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corty 5y ago

I agree. A confrontation between the US and China, as well as China and its neighbors, is inevitable. There are just too many factors forcing this, Taiwan, the South China Sea, China's economic slowdown, USs' economic slowdown, the race for influence and resources in Africa and South America. Maybe (hopefully) it will just be another cold war. But being able to present China as the bad guy early on would be more valuable to the US than having China save face. The only exception to this would be if the US were of the opinion that more time was needed before a higher level of confrontation could be entered: in that case, appeasement and face-saving would buy time. However, I don't see how this could be the case, the US is bringing military resources back home within a few months, probably not to decomission them. US military strength and availability is currently at a peak. And China is still in the process of building up military strength, which will take time since their problem is old equipment to be replaced and new equipment to be built. So for the US, an early confrontation would be advantageous.

fallingfrog 5y ago
No, it’s not inevitable. That’s poisonous thinking. We can always de-escalate. That’s the kind of stupidity that led to the First World War, and the First World War led to the Second World War. None of it had to happen. There were always other options. Edit: We should immediately attack China because they’re a bunch of godless communists! The CCP is a murderous regime trying to develop biological weapons to murder everyone! Better to just have at it now while we still have the bigger army! Why not just use nukes! Every time anyone mentions China for any reason we just end up in the dumbest flame wars imaginable.
- corty 5y ago
  No, we can't. Appeasement didn't help against Hitler, deescalation just gave him the Sudentenland and Austria "for free", strengthening Germany and prolonging the coming war. Deescalation only works if all sides actually do not want a conflict. But China still wants to incorporate Taiwan and the South China sea. I don't see how one could deescalate those. And deescalating by allowing China to annex, well, see above.
- fallingfrog 5y ago
  The fact that war exists at all is psychotic and utterly baffling. Any member of the human race that ever argues for increasing a military budget needs years of intensive therapy. Militaries just shouldn’t exist. If they had never been invented nobody would see the need for them. Hitler and his whole horrible movement was the product of war. Ugh I just don’t know what’s wrong with people.

loopz 5y ago

That's politics, not science. Politicians absolutely have to play the game with China, or they lose face, and are themselves cornered into extreme measures. Playing the game badly could have worse reprecusions for all of us. Political skill and understanding of culture is crucial in this context. There's a saying, there's a time for everything. This pandemic is absolutely a Chernobyl moment, and all nations unprepared despite multiple warnings. Then it now need to become a moment for humbleness, not petty blame games.

deleted 5y ago

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