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Maybe this is naive, but what the issue here? These people are alive, the documents exist, the physical locations are accessible. This isn’t archeology. Couldn

Maybe this is naive, but what the issue here? These people are alive, the documents exist, the physical locations are accessible. This isn’t archeology. Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? You shut down the globe for a year, seems like it’d be worth running down all the Rabit holes.

tremon 5y ago
the physical locations are accessible China has blocked any and all independent access to the site, the only group allowed access was the WHO research group that somehow happened to include the most rabid opponents of the lab leak theory (Peter Daszak, mentioned in the article).
- bitexploder 5y ago
  It’s all been thoroughly scrubbed physically and digitally anyway at this point.
toshk 5y ago
You don't seem to understand China. Hollywood actor Cena just begged in Mandarin for forgiveness after mentioning Taiwan is a country (which it is). Local Amsterdam politicians are not allowed to go on the photo with Taiwanese politicians etc. The Communist Party is overly controlling and will not allow anything that will challenge their vision. While Europe and the US were busy with their internal quarrels the last decades, China has been making moves.
- Workaccount2 5y ago
  Busy with their quarrels? You mean directly funding China's transformation with an insatiable appetite for cheap shit?
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  At least they are going to be "trustworthy, lovable and respectable" from now on....
macspoofing 5y ago
>Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? China could have been forthright from the start (regardless if this was a lab-leak or not), but they weren't, and you can't make them.
- bmitc 5y ago
  In all honesty, why would they be? Without them addressing anything, the west, particularly the U.S., has had their pitchforks out and ready since day one. With our idiotic president calling it the Chinese virus from the start, why in the hell would China want to be upfront about what they knew about the origin if it indeed was a lab leak? I wouldn’t. That’s all on the assumption that they themselves even knew or know. If our president had been less like a child, it would have been a better environment to get to the truth. You and others act like this is some elementary school incident where honesty is the best policy. But with politics involved and the already prevalent mass hysteria and propaganda going on everywhere, it makes sense, on a realist and not idealist level, why one would not be forthright. There’s also the idea that the U.S. was terribly ill-prepared and ill-equipped to handle the virus. The U.S. needs to be prepared for such viruses, no matter their origin, because zoonotic crossover events will remain a possibility with even higher likelihood going forward. My worry is if the virus origin is or is even believed to be of lab-based origin, that will weaken the prerogative and narrative to be prepared for zoonotic diseases. Because then, it was something “done to us” rather than a natural event we should be prepared for, an event which remains a big possibility even if this particular virus was of lab origin.
  - BigGreenTurtle 5y ago
    Plus, China gets to watch their political enemies tear each other apart over this issue, so there really isn't any incentive to be forthright.
  - macspoofing 5y ago
    >In all honesty, why would they be? What kind of an insane statement is that? Because that's the right thing to do when it comes to something like a GLOBAL pandemic. >Without them addressing anything, the west, particularly the U.S., has had their pitchforks out and ready since day one. Is that a rationalization for not being forthright about the pandemic and origins of the virus (regardless if it was accidentally from a lab, or came directly from nature)? And China is not some timid wallflower. Stop pretending like they are. They are a global superpower that really fucked up here in multitude of ways and if they get some criticism then so be it - China is a big boy, it can take it. >With our idiotic president calling it the Chinese virus from the start, why in the hell would China want to be upfront about what they knew about the origin if it indeed was a lab leak? I wouldn’t. You would lie to the global public because you don't like Trump? How could you say something like that and even try to justify it. I'm flabbergasted. It's such an immoral statement that I'm surprised anyone would seriously make. Trump said many dumb things but there's a lot of crazy shit that came out of very high-level Chinese officials as well, such as that the virus came from America. But that's all immaterial. They have a responsibility to be transparent. >You and others act like this is some elementary school incident where honesty is the best policy. It's a GLOBAL pandemic. It affects everyone. Transparency is critical! Fault the west for many things, but these kinds of things tend to have full transparency around them. Communist authoritarian regimes, on the other hand, can never find a way to be truthful. The truth always seems to be needed to be dragged out of them. This is shaping up as another Chernobyl moment for another authoritarian communist regime. Ultimately, it's everyone else that pays the price.

tremon 5y ago

the physical locations are accessible China has blocked any and all independent access to the site, the only group allowed access was the WHO research group that somehow happened to include the most rabid opponents of the lab leak theory (Peter Daszak, mentioned in the article).

bitexploder 5y ago
It’s all been thoroughly scrubbed physically and digitally anyway at this point.

toshk 5y ago

You don't seem to understand China. Hollywood actor Cena just begged in Mandarin for forgiveness after mentioning Taiwan is a country (which it is). Local Amsterdam politicians are not allowed to go on the photo with Taiwanese politicians etc. The Communist Party is overly controlling and will not allow anything that will challenge their vision. While Europe and the US were busy with their internal quarrels the last decades, China has been making moves.

Workaccount2 5y ago
Busy with their quarrels? You mean directly funding China's transformation with an insatiable appetite for cheap shit?
FridayoLeary 5y ago
At least they are going to be "trustworthy, lovable and respectable" from now on....

macspoofing 5y ago

>Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? China could have been forthright from the start (regardless if this was a lab-leak or not), but they weren't, and you can't make them.

bmitc 5y ago
In all honesty, why would they be? Without them addressing anything, the west, particularly the U.S., has had their pitchforks out and ready since day one. With our idiotic president calling it the Chinese virus from the start, why in the hell would China want to be upfront about what they knew about the origin if it indeed was a lab leak? I wouldn’t. That’s all on the assumption that they themselves even knew or know. If our president had been less like a child, it would have been a better environment to get to the truth. You and others act like this is some elementary school incident where honesty is the best policy. But with politics involved and the already prevalent mass hysteria and propaganda going on everywhere, it makes sense, on a realist and not idealist level, why one would not be forthright. There’s also the idea that the U.S. was terribly ill-prepared and ill-equipped to handle the virus. The U.S. needs to be prepared for such viruses, no matter their origin, because zoonotic crossover events will remain a possibility with even higher likelihood going forward. My worry is if the virus origin is or is even believed to be of lab-based origin, that will weaken the prerogative and narrative to be prepared for zoonotic diseases. Because then, it was something “done to us” rather than a natural event we should be prepared for, an event which remains a big possibility even if this particular virus was of lab origin.
- BigGreenTurtle 5y ago
  Plus, China gets to watch their political enemies tear each other apart over this issue, so there really isn't any incentive to be forthright.
- macspoofing 5y ago
  >In all honesty, why would they be? What kind of an insane statement is that? Because that's the right thing to do when it comes to something like a GLOBAL pandemic. >Without them addressing anything, the west, particularly the U.S., has had their pitchforks out and ready since day one. Is that a rationalization for not being forthright about the pandemic and origins of the virus (regardless if it was accidentally from a lab, or came directly from nature)? And China is not some timid wallflower. Stop pretending like they are. They are a global superpower that really fucked up here in multitude of ways and if they get some criticism then so be it - China is a big boy, it can take it. >With our idiotic president calling it the Chinese virus from the start, why in the hell would China want to be upfront about what they knew about the origin if it indeed was a lab leak? I wouldn’t. You would lie to the global public because you don't like Trump? How could you say something like that and even try to justify it. I'm flabbergasted. It's such an immoral statement that I'm surprised anyone would seriously make. Trump said many dumb things but there's a lot of crazy shit that came out of very high-level Chinese officials as well, such as that the virus came from America. But that's all immaterial. They have a responsibility to be transparent. >You and others act like this is some elementary school incident where honesty is the best policy. It's a GLOBAL pandemic. It affects everyone. Transparency is critical! Fault the west for many things, but these kinds of things tend to have full transparency around them. Communist authoritarian regimes, on the other hand, can never find a way to be truthful. The truth always seems to be needed to be dragged out of them. This is shaping up as another Chernobyl moment for another authoritarian communist regime. Ultimately, it's everyone else that pays the price.