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"Twenty years ago, before India opened its markets to the world, career prospects were bleak. Men might have been laborers or government workers, but even the m

by hzay 15y ago

"Twenty years ago, before India opened its markets to the world, career prospects were bleak. Men might have been laborers or government workers, but even the most ambitious women often gave in to social pressure and stayed home." My 70 year old Indian grandmother was a school teacher. She had five daughters and all of them became teachers or professors. None of them spent their childhood in cities.

baltcode 15y ago
It is a very superficial, stereotyped statement (not any worse than those about Aussies, I guess), and people were obviously doing things other than laborers, government workers, and homemakers. However, the BPO era has added a significant number of jobs of questionable worth and the statement does talk of a real sociological phenomenon.
- hzay 15y ago
  >It is a very superficial, stereotyped statement (not any worse than those about Aussies, I guess), and people were obviously doing things other than laborers, government workers, and homemakers. Yes. There were several statements that were plain false, and I picked that one because I had proof-of-falsehood. >However, the BPO era has added a significant number of jobs of questionable worth and the statement does talk of a real sociological phenomenon. I think it is entirely possible to write about this phenomenon without having to stretch the truth. EDIT: I just realized that the article doesn't really say anything about Aussies.
  - rue 15y ago
    One anecdote certainly isn't “proof-of-falsehood”, be the veracity of the original statement what it may.
    - hzay 15y ago
      I meant proof-of-falsehood for myself. That is, I knew vaguely that a lot of things that were written in that article were not quite true, but I didn't have facts that showed them to be false, except for the quote in my original post. I didn't write all the facts I had against that because I felt that, if you do not believe my anecdote, offering more than one doesn't strengthen my case, and if you choose to believe it, I needn't offer more than one story.
  - baltcode 15y ago
    The author/narrator didn't say anything about Aussies, the BPO trainer did.
- wisty 15y ago
  >> Men might have ..., and even the most ambitions women often ... So it doesn't really say anything for certain. It does bring up the common stereotypes of traditional Indian women being forced to stay home, and India's economy being two speeds - the wealthy Fabian socialist government, and poor labor-intensive private sector. BPO does add to the private sector, and bring in some easy money (as long as India stays poor). There are other elements of the private sector, such as software engineering companies, automobile manufacturing (Tato), and so on; and India's domestic demand (which is partly fueled by BPO) drives these. I doubt BPO can really poison India's economy, the way tourist dollars can deskill some places. BPO is too small, and India's too big.
dusklight 15y ago
Yes but India has/(had? kinda not really) the caste system so it would be expected that people in the same family have the same profession. Intellectually speaking, in your average Indian village just how many people would you expect to be schoolteachers and how many would you expect to be labourers? Approximately 50% of the population is female, do you think the number of schoolteachers in a pre-globalization Indian village approaches that ratio? What were these other women doing then?
- baltcode 15y ago
  Yes, India has a caste system. It hasn't "gone away", but it doesn't necessarily mean everyone in the same family is always forced to work in the same profession and it hasn't had the force of law for quite a while. These things can subtly create significant hurdles for many people, but so does poverty or membership in unpopular groups for people in countries other than India. I think I am pro free marker, but something I find irritating is Tom Friedman-esque simplistic assumptions that aren't true. I don't think many village laborers were able to improve their lot and become school teachers due to BPO businesses. Its not a statement against globalization, just the way things are right now. Also, the economic liberalization process changed some things about Indian commerce irrespective of globalization.
- badmash69 15y ago
  Funny -- I had never heard of the "Teacher" caste before. But by the same measure of anecdotal evidence, there must exist a "Hollywood caste” in US -- how else would you explain Will Smith's kids going into entertainment biz. Or may be there is a Pizza maker caste -- what else could explain the family owned pizzeria next door. My daughter's paediatrician is my doctor's son and he is married to nurse. There must be a doctor caste to explain this.

by hzay 15y ago

baltcode 15y ago

It is a very superficial, stereotyped statement (not any worse than those about Aussies, I guess), and people were obviously doing things other than laborers, government workers, and homemakers. However, the BPO era has added a significant number of jobs of questionable worth and the statement does talk of a real sociological phenomenon.

hzay 15y ago
>It is a very superficial, stereotyped statement (not any worse than those about Aussies, I guess), and people were obviously doing things other than laborers, government workers, and homemakers. Yes. There were several statements that were plain false, and I picked that one because I had proof-of-falsehood. >However, the BPO era has added a significant number of jobs of questionable worth and the statement does talk of a real sociological phenomenon. I think it is entirely possible to write about this phenomenon without having to stretch the truth. EDIT: I just realized that the article doesn't really say anything about Aussies.
- rue 15y ago
  One anecdote certainly isn't “proof-of-falsehood”, be the veracity of the original statement what it may.
  - hzay 15y ago
    I meant proof-of-falsehood for myself. That is, I knew vaguely that a lot of things that were written in that article were not quite true, but I didn't have facts that showed them to be false, except for the quote in my original post. I didn't write all the facts I had against that because I felt that, if you do not believe my anecdote, offering more than one doesn't strengthen my case, and if you choose to believe it, I needn't offer more than one story.
- baltcode 15y ago
  The author/narrator didn't say anything about Aussies, the BPO trainer did.
wisty 15y ago
>> Men might have ..., and even the most ambitions women often ... So it doesn't really say anything for certain. It does bring up the common stereotypes of traditional Indian women being forced to stay home, and India's economy being two speeds - the wealthy Fabian socialist government, and poor labor-intensive private sector. BPO does add to the private sector, and bring in some easy money (as long as India stays poor). There are other elements of the private sector, such as software engineering companies, automobile manufacturing (Tato), and so on; and India's domestic demand (which is partly fueled by BPO) drives these. I doubt BPO can really poison India's economy, the way tourist dollars can deskill some places. BPO is too small, and India's too big.

dusklight 15y ago

Yes but India has/(had? kinda not really) the caste system so it would be expected that people in the same family have the same profession. Intellectually speaking, in your average Indian village just how many people would you expect to be schoolteachers and how many would you expect to be labourers? Approximately 50% of the population is female, do you think the number of schoolteachers in a pre-globalization Indian village approaches that ratio? What were these other women doing then?

baltcode 15y ago
Yes, India has a caste system. It hasn't "gone away", but it doesn't necessarily mean everyone in the same family is always forced to work in the same profession and it hasn't had the force of law for quite a while. These things can subtly create significant hurdles for many people, but so does poverty or membership in unpopular groups for people in countries other than India. I think I am pro free marker, but something I find irritating is Tom Friedman-esque simplistic assumptions that aren't true. I don't think many village laborers were able to improve their lot and become school teachers due to BPO businesses. Its not a statement against globalization, just the way things are right now. Also, the economic liberalization process changed some things about Indian commerce irrespective of globalization.
badmash69 15y ago
Funny -- I had never heard of the "Teacher" caste before. But by the same measure of anecdotal evidence, there must exist a "Hollywood caste” in US -- how else would you explain Will Smith's kids going into entertainment biz. Or may be there is a Pizza maker caste -- what else could explain the family owned pizzeria next door. My daughter's paediatrician is my doctor's son and he is married to nurse. There must be a doctor caste to explain this.