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They indirectly gave WIV funding to support research into Pig SARS -- Swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV). There is exactly fuckoff zero evide

They indirectly gave WIV funding to support research into Pig SARS -- Swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV). There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over into humans only makes sense.

deugo 5y ago
> There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. From the Fauci e-mails: People Fauci directly worked with seemed surprised and shocked to learn otherwise, and could not even instantly say if their funding had made it abroad. There are papers resulting from GoF research of concern at the WIV. There are grant proposals, which specify the exact modifications they will do to Bat SARS to increase infectivity on mice with humanized lungs. How can you speak so certain, if you are unaware of this? > And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over into humans only makes sense. It makes sense, but you'll see through studying the records that it was the cover for military funding. What was the Defense Threat Reduction Agency funding doing at the WIV where military researchers shared floors with civilian researchers working on the same animals? Making sense to research spillover?
- lamontcg 5y ago
  - There was GOF research done on US soil at UNC Chapel Hill which collaborated with WIV. They took a SARS-CoV-1 backbone and splied in a surface protein from another coronavirus and ran it through mice to produce a mouse coronavirus. - There's no papers out of WIV indicating GOF research > but you'll see through studying the records that it was the cover for military funding. You're offering a blatant conspiracy theory now with no substantiation. The funding to WIV had nothing to do with GoF and there's no evidence of anything else. But it HAD to be GoF research. Circular, evidence-free logic.
  - extratinypp 5y ago
    This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored. They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting. You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say. Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting. And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place. It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.
  - ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
    > There's no papers out of WIV indicating GOF research This is something I'm confused about. There are a bunch of papers from the WIV and the North Carolina lab which describe "reverse genetics", spike protein modification, and other obvious gain of function research which acknowledge funding from USAID and EcoHealth Alliance. (The most recently famous of these is Menachery et al, Nature 2015.) But it looks like the actual GoF was done at the Baric lab in North Carolina. The closest I could find was serial passaging experiments done at Wuhan to isolate viruses and test vaccines. One could argue that testing virus infectivity by serial passage is dangerous enough... > The funding to WIV had nothing to do with GoF and there's no evidence of anything else. The funding to EcoHealth Alliance specified GoF under such terms as "reverse genetics", "virus infection experiments ... humanized mice." EHA may have put restrictions on how this money was used, but with the revelation in this article that WIV has lied about doing military research... I'm not so confident we can say no GoF was done there.
lurquer 5y ago
Giving Chinese Communist Party money for anything does not make sense. Period. The naïveté is astounding. Whether it’s Ft. Dietrich or Wuhan, the point of ‘gain of function’ is to learn techniques to create biological weapons. Why are US dollars going to assist research along these lines at a top secret communist facility? Anyway, I look forward to the next stage of this when the great minds of HN are permitted by mainstream media to realize why this virus struck with a vengeance in a few handpicked sites around Europe and the US. "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."
- Natsu 5y ago
  I wouldn't say that all GOF research is for bioweapons, part of it is to see where the virus is likely to evolve next and protect against that, which is more on the defensive side of that. Doesn't mean it's less risky, mind you, and this is convincing me that the experts on this need to reassess whether it's worth the risks and if so, what safety precautions are needed. I would think that BSL-2 is just way too low, but I would defer to the scientists on this and only say that I think this shows that anything done to make something more infectious to humans should be treated as though it already was highly infectious to humans.
  - deugo 5y ago
    If you want to take the military lab work with coronavirus seriously, you should instantly forget about a mass-casualty biological weapon. Coronavirus is studied for other purposes than that. Military wants to be able to release a coronavirus which can target on gene profile, or even activate for certain DNA. That way you can release a virus, let it run with all the regular flus, and have your targets die in their own country, of say, a stroke, blood clothing, or they stopped breathing in their sleep. Another study of coronavirus is as a debilitating weapon, much like a cyber attack on hospitals and the energy grid. The entire country suffers an economic crisis and needs to turn their attention away from you to manage it. The bioweapon thing is a distraction though, I think. There was massive military activity at WIV, and they accidentally released a GoF virus mostly used for publishing papers such as: We made this virus in the freezer infect humans cells, and you can't believe what happened next! It shows (potentially) the potential to become a future pandemic! It is all so painfully ironic. I think the virology community got afraid of advanced in data modeling, and, avoiding missed grants and early retirement, started to hack Nature because only they could/were allowed to. They bugged out. It happens. They released a "biological weapon" which estimated killed over 8 million people now. They did it from a lab where shady military research is happening. Expose either and the jig is up. Maybe one protects the other...
extratinypp 5y ago
This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored. They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting. You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say. Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting. And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place. It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.
1980phipsi 5y ago
Money is fungible.

deugo 5y ago

> There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. From the Fauci e-mails: People Fauci directly worked with seemed surprised and shocked to learn otherwise, and could not even instantly say if their funding had made it abroad. There are papers resulting from GoF research of concern at the WIV. There are grant proposals, which specify the exact modifications they will do to Bat SARS to increase infectivity on mice with humanized lungs. How can you speak so certain, if you are unaware of this? > And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over into humans only makes sense. It makes sense, but you'll see through studying the records that it was the cover for military funding. What was the Defense Threat Reduction Agency funding doing at the WIV where military researchers shared floors with civilian researchers working on the same animals? Making sense to research spillover?

lamontcg 5y ago
- There was GOF research done on US soil at UNC Chapel Hill which collaborated with WIV. They took a SARS-CoV-1 backbone and splied in a surface protein from another coronavirus and ran it through mice to produce a mouse coronavirus. - There's no papers out of WIV indicating GOF research > but you'll see through studying the records that it was the cover for military funding. You're offering a blatant conspiracy theory now with no substantiation. The funding to WIV had nothing to do with GoF and there's no evidence of anything else. But it HAD to be GoF research. Circular, evidence-free logic.
- extratinypp 5y ago
  This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored. They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting. You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say. Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting. And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place. It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.
- ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
  > There's no papers out of WIV indicating GOF research This is something I'm confused about. There are a bunch of papers from the WIV and the North Carolina lab which describe "reverse genetics", spike protein modification, and other obvious gain of function research which acknowledge funding from USAID and EcoHealth Alliance. (The most recently famous of these is Menachery et al, Nature 2015.) But it looks like the actual GoF was done at the Baric lab in North Carolina. The closest I could find was serial passaging experiments done at Wuhan to isolate viruses and test vaccines. One could argue that testing virus infectivity by serial passage is dangerous enough... > The funding to WIV had nothing to do with GoF and there's no evidence of anything else. The funding to EcoHealth Alliance specified GoF under such terms as "reverse genetics", "virus infection experiments ... humanized mice." EHA may have put restrictions on how this money was used, but with the revelation in this article that WIV has lied about doing military research... I'm not so confident we can say no GoF was done there.

lurquer 5y ago

Giving Chinese Communist Party money for anything does not make sense. Period. The naïveté is astounding. Whether it’s Ft. Dietrich or Wuhan, the point of ‘gain of function’ is to learn techniques to create biological weapons. Why are US dollars going to assist research along these lines at a top secret communist facility? Anyway, I look forward to the next stage of this when the great minds of HN are permitted by mainstream media to realize why this virus struck with a vengeance in a few handpicked sites around Europe and the US. "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."

Natsu 5y ago
I wouldn't say that all GOF research is for bioweapons, part of it is to see where the virus is likely to evolve next and protect against that, which is more on the defensive side of that. Doesn't mean it's less risky, mind you, and this is convincing me that the experts on this need to reassess whether it's worth the risks and if so, what safety precautions are needed. I would think that BSL-2 is just way too low, but I would defer to the scientists on this and only say that I think this shows that anything done to make something more infectious to humans should be treated as though it already was highly infectious to humans.
- deugo 5y ago
  If you want to take the military lab work with coronavirus seriously, you should instantly forget about a mass-casualty biological weapon. Coronavirus is studied for other purposes than that. Military wants to be able to release a coronavirus which can target on gene profile, or even activate for certain DNA. That way you can release a virus, let it run with all the regular flus, and have your targets die in their own country, of say, a stroke, blood clothing, or they stopped breathing in their sleep. Another study of coronavirus is as a debilitating weapon, much like a cyber attack on hospitals and the energy grid. The entire country suffers an economic crisis and needs to turn their attention away from you to manage it. The bioweapon thing is a distraction though, I think. There was massive military activity at WIV, and they accidentally released a GoF virus mostly used for publishing papers such as: We made this virus in the freezer infect humans cells, and you can't believe what happened next! It shows (potentially) the potential to become a future pandemic! It is all so painfully ironic. I think the virology community got afraid of advanced in data modeling, and, avoiding missed grants and early retirement, started to hack Nature because only they could/were allowed to. They bugged out. It happens. They released a "biological weapon" which estimated killed over 8 million people now. They did it from a lab where shady military research is happening. Expose either and the jig is up. Maybe one protects the other...

extratinypp 5y ago

This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored. They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting. You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say. Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting. And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place. It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

1980phipsi 5y ago

Money is fungible.