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Yeah, from personal experience any time I or anybody else tries to argue that supporting IE isn’t worth it any more, a PM will pull out traffic statistics and s

Yeah, from personal experience any time I or anybody else tries to argue that supporting IE isn’t worth it any more, a PM will pull out traffic statistics and say ‘see, x% is still on IE, we can’t not support them’

asddubs 5y ago
according to caniuse it's less than a percent now. of course mileage may vary.
- sillyquiet 5y ago
  Right, like I noted elsewhere some industries have higher IE traffic, proportionally speaking
  - not2b 5y ago
    It used to be that many companies were stuck with IE because they bought complex products that only support IE (and an older version of IE at that) to manage their business with. Fortunately a lot of the worst of that stuff has gone away. But it's still out there (though in many cases the employees use IE only to talk to BogusLegacyProduct and use Chrome for everything else).
  - shakna 5y ago
    As an example, a school website I run support for on and off, and have done so for a number of years, still receives 18% of its traffic from IE8.
    - asddubs 5y ago
      a bunch of school computers running XP? Or maybe the principal still runs xp and only 4 other people visit the site
      - shakna 5y ago
        No, in point of fact most of those 18% are parents at home running Windows XP. The entire school runs on Windows 10, as the cursing from the server room will tell you on a regular basis. And the school site has quite an active userbase - students upload assignments via it, parents can live-view all gradings and remarks (and regularly use it), and staff generally access their email via it instead of a client.
        asddubs 5y ago
        interesting, i guess it must be people who almost don't have an internet presence at all beyond school. since in ie8, nothing works at this point (i imagine their kids might have their own computers). hell, a huge swath of https sites just flat out won't work in XP as i understand (e.g. anything with a let's encrypt certificate)
themacguffinman 5y ago
Soon you'll be able to respond that even Microsoft is dropping support for IE. The IE application itself is reaching end of life on June 15th, 2022 [1] but Microsoft's own products will no longer support IE later this year in August [2]. [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/internet-explorer-11-desktop-app-retirement-faq/ba-p/2366549 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/i... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/internet-explorer-11-support-end-dates https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/int...
el_dev_hell 5y ago
> a PM will pull out traffic statistics and say ‘see, x% is still on IE, we can’t not support them’ Sure, which can be countered with: "no problem, it will add 30% to the estimate". Unless the % is significant (over 10%), it's not worth the effort.
- sillyquiet 5y ago
  Yep, that's exactly why I keep pushing to drop support. I am as interested as the PM in implementing a feature as efficiently as possible, and when I have to cadge together a js solution for something that's in CSS or, worse, cadge together IE-specific CSS overrides (truth be told, I have to do this for Safari often too), it automatically increases the estimation.
  - el_dev_hell 5y ago
    > truth be told, I have to do this for Safari often too One day Safari will enable smooth scroll.
jacobr 5y ago
You then respond with “is x% worth y% longer time to market for new features, and n milliseconds longer load time for users on other browsers?” Also don’t forget to check actual conversion and other important metrics for different browsers, not only number of visits.

asddubs 5y ago

according to caniuse it's less than a percent now. of course mileage may vary.

sillyquiet 5y ago
Right, like I noted elsewhere some industries have higher IE traffic, proportionally speaking
- not2b 5y ago
  It used to be that many companies were stuck with IE because they bought complex products that only support IE (and an older version of IE at that) to manage their business with. Fortunately a lot of the worst of that stuff has gone away. But it's still out there (though in many cases the employees use IE only to talk to BogusLegacyProduct and use Chrome for everything else).
- shakna 5y ago
  As an example, a school website I run support for on and off, and have done so for a number of years, still receives 18% of its traffic from IE8.
  - asddubs 5y ago
    a bunch of school computers running XP? Or maybe the principal still runs xp and only 4 other people visit the site
    - shakna 5y ago
      No, in point of fact most of those 18% are parents at home running Windows XP. The entire school runs on Windows 10, as the cursing from the server room will tell you on a regular basis. And the school site has quite an active userbase - students upload assignments via it, parents can live-view all gradings and remarks (and regularly use it), and staff generally access their email via it instead of a client.
      - asddubs 5y ago
        interesting, i guess it must be people who almost don't have an internet presence at all beyond school. since in ie8, nothing works at this point (i imagine their kids might have their own computers). hell, a huge swath of https sites just flat out won't work in XP as i understand (e.g. anything with a let's encrypt certificate)

themacguffinman 5y ago

Soon you'll be able to respond that even Microsoft is dropping support for IE. The IE application itself is reaching end of life on June 15th, 2022 [1] but Microsoft's own products will no longer support IE later this year in August [2]. [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/internet-explorer-11-desktop-app-retirement-faq/ba-p/2366549 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/i... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/internet-explorer-11-support-end-dates https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/int...

el_dev_hell 5y ago

> a PM will pull out traffic statistics and say ‘see, x% is still on IE, we can’t not support them’ Sure, which can be countered with: "no problem, it will add 30% to the estimate". Unless the % is significant (over 10%), it's not worth the effort.

sillyquiet 5y ago
Yep, that's exactly why I keep pushing to drop support. I am as interested as the PM in implementing a feature as efficiently as possible, and when I have to cadge together a js solution for something that's in CSS or, worse, cadge together IE-specific CSS overrides (truth be told, I have to do this for Safari often too), it automatically increases the estimation.
- el_dev_hell 5y ago
  > truth be told, I have to do this for Safari often too One day Safari will enable smooth scroll.

jacobr 5y ago

You then respond with “is x% worth y% longer time to market for new features, and n milliseconds longer load time for users on other browsers?” Also don’t forget to check actual conversion and other important metrics for different browsers, not only number of visits.