6 ms·

It is, the narrative last year was that if you pointed at Wuhan, or Chinese Lab Leak, you were racist/bigoted.

xwolfi 5y ago
Depends how you point. Look I'm French, we built the lab. In France, all the people involved in the lab construction "quit" any official functions they had before the virus. That's the legend, the doubt is quite strong. People are just now refusing it could NOT be the lab. And are mounting into conspiracy theory etc just because not everyone rolls over the floor with their conviction. No: the lab source is likely (suspicious communist behaviour, french handlers all disappeared, geographical proximity, thematical proximity - as in they studied these kind of virii), but not sure yet. And I'm taking flak in my family for not jumping to the most "obvious" conclusion - probably because they live in France and I live in China hehe. I think the communists are equally able to be stupid enough to refuse any investigation, to have put military command of the lab to actually be ready to study a natural virus under military command, that they were not quite competent enough to raise the virus to that particular gain of function, and that the french handlers left their ministerial position out of precaution.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.
- swader999 5y ago
  It's been practice for centuries to initially name it after where it was first originated. Spanish flu ring a bell? But yeah Trump's racist for saying China flu.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Uh, it didn't originate in Spain. From Wikipedia: > "The pandemic is conventionally marked as having begun on 4 March 1918 with the recording of the case of Albert Gitchell, an army cook at Camp Funston in Kansas, United States"
  - basilgohar 5y ago
    The first observations of illness and mortality of the Spanish Flu were actually in the US. The origin of the name of the Spanish Flu is due to it being reported in the news most freely and widely in Spain as many other nations were limiting reporting due to being embroiled in WWI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
    - swader999 5y ago
      I know this to be the case but it was still first thought to have originated in Spain.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        The Wikipedia page cites no theory that places the origin in Spain. It cites theories of origin for the US, France, China and Europe in general.
  - cordellwren 5y ago
    The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain -- its origins are disputed, but it was first observed in the US. I'm surprised you didn't get this memo by now, but Spain gained that ignominy only by being the sole country to not apply censorship regarding the topic at the time ("Land of the Free" included). It's utter nonsensical bullshit like this that made us collectively move away from naming diseases after countries.
    - swader999 5y ago
      We haven't moved away from that until about yesterday. UK variant, SA variant, Brazil variant. These were in the news you know?
- generalizations 5y ago
  That's not really how it happened. Remember 'Hug a Chinese person day', over in Italy? https://in.news.yahoo.com/italy-launched-hug-chinese-campaign-065339340.html https://in.news.yahoo.com/italy-launched-hug-chinese-campaig...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    How does that conflict in any way with what I wrote?
- DudeInBasement 5y ago
  Lol. A lab near the wet market, who studies bats and viruses. And people ignore the obvious because orange bad man said it.
  - abraae 5y ago
    When someone demonstrably lies constantly, it's not unreasonable to assume that the truth is most likely the opposite of what they say.
    - jkhdigital 5y ago
      No, the reasonable response is to completely ignore what they say, because otherwise you are still being manipulated by the liar.
      - mindslight 5y ago
        It's easy to ignore the liar themselves, but it's impossible to ignore repetitions of the liar's message. The only possibility is to ignore any message matching the liar's, regardless of provenance. This completely screws up rational discourse. And yes, such manipulation and corruption of debate is the general problem with liars being awarded leadership positions.
    - DudeInBasement 5y ago
      So instead of looking at the facts, and then taking others opinion, you completely disregard the facts because the opinion comes from a liar?
- lawnchair_larry 5y ago
  Except it never seemed more credible. People were assigned their opinion that it was more credible, and accepted it uncritically. It was frankly ridiculous if you had the information about the WIV that was being discussed wherever Peter Daszak wasn’t trying to cover his own ass and ruin others careers.
- actuator 5y ago
  > Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic While the racist violence that happened was deplorable, it is entirely amusing to me that we are fine with calling it UK/Brazil/South African/Indian variant but not call it the China virus/flu. The same publications like Guardian which did not use the term China virus/flu because it was considered racist had no problem in using Brazil/Indian variant as the names of the variant. They are still doing it even after WHO came up with different non country based names for each variants. > The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely Wuhan lab leak being shot down so easily was the thing I found non convincing and the fact that so many journalists didn't cover it was surprising. While we might be able to ascertain that the virus is natural or man made easily, but a natural virus leaking out would seem high on the probability list to me as there is conveniently a lab at the same place where the outbreak first happened; and it was doing research on the same thing.
  - triceratops 5y ago
    > we are fine with calling it UK/Brazil/South African/Indian variant Not anymore. They're getting Greek letter designations now.
    - actuator 5y ago
      Tell it to our politically correct liberal friends at Guardian, they are still using the country name. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/india-covid-variant-may-increase-risk-of-hospital-admission-early-data-suggests https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/india-covid-va...
      - triceratops 5y ago
        Maybe not every copy editor there has gotten the news?[1] 1. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/covid-19-variants-to-be-given-greek-alphabet-names-to-avoid-stigma https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/covid-19-varia...
dang 5y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27388952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27388952.

Depends how you point. Look I'm French, we built the lab. In France, all the people involved in the lab construction "quit" any official functions they had before the virus. That's the legend, the doubt is quite strong. People are just now refusing it could NOT be the lab. And are mounting into conspiracy theory etc just because not everyone rolls over the floor with their conviction. No: the lab source is likely (suspicious communist behaviour, french handlers all disappeared, geographical proximity, thematical proximity - as in they studied these kind of virii), but not sure yet. And I'm taking flak in my family for not jumping to the most "obvious" conclusion - probably because they live in France and I live in China hehe. I think the communists are equally able to be stupid enough to refuse any investigation, to have put military command of the lab to actually be ready to study a natural virus under military command, that they were not quite competent enough to raise the virus to that particular gain of function, and that the french handlers left their ministerial position out of precaution.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.

swader999 5y ago
It's been practice for centuries to initially name it after where it was first originated. Spanish flu ring a bell? But yeah Trump's racist for saying China flu.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Uh, it didn't originate in Spain. From Wikipedia: > "The pandemic is conventionally marked as having begun on 4 March 1918 with the recording of the case of Albert Gitchell, an army cook at Camp Funston in Kansas, United States"
- basilgohar 5y ago
  The first observations of illness and mortality of the Spanish Flu were actually in the US. The origin of the name of the Spanish Flu is due to it being reported in the news most freely and widely in Spain as many other nations were limiting reporting due to being embroiled in WWI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
  - swader999 5y ago
    I know this to be the case but it was still first thought to have originated in Spain.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      The Wikipedia page cites no theory that places the origin in Spain. It cites theories of origin for the US, France, China and Europe in general.
- cordellwren 5y ago
  The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain -- its origins are disputed, but it was first observed in the US. I'm surprised you didn't get this memo by now, but Spain gained that ignominy only by being the sole country to not apply censorship regarding the topic at the time ("Land of the Free" included). It's utter nonsensical bullshit like this that made us collectively move away from naming diseases after countries.
  - swader999 5y ago
    We haven't moved away from that until about yesterday. UK variant, SA variant, Brazil variant. These were in the news you know?
generalizations 5y ago
That's not really how it happened. Remember 'Hug a Chinese person day', over in Italy? https://in.news.yahoo.com/italy-launched-hug-chinese-campaign-065339340.html https://in.news.yahoo.com/italy-launched-hug-chinese-campaig...
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  How does that conflict in any way with what I wrote?
DudeInBasement 5y ago
Lol. A lab near the wet market, who studies bats and viruses. And people ignore the obvious because orange bad man said it.
- abraae 5y ago
  When someone demonstrably lies constantly, it's not unreasonable to assume that the truth is most likely the opposite of what they say.
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    No, the reasonable response is to completely ignore what they say, because otherwise you are still being manipulated by the liar.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      It's easy to ignore the liar themselves, but it's impossible to ignore repetitions of the liar's message. The only possibility is to ignore any message matching the liar's, regardless of provenance. This completely screws up rational discourse. And yes, such manipulation and corruption of debate is the general problem with liars being awarded leadership positions.
  - DudeInBasement 5y ago
    So instead of looking at the facts, and then taking others opinion, you completely disregard the facts because the opinion comes from a liar?
lawnchair_larry 5y ago
Except it never seemed more credible. People were assigned their opinion that it was more credible, and accepted it uncritically. It was frankly ridiculous if you had the information about the WIV that was being discussed wherever Peter Daszak wasn’t trying to cover his own ass and ruin others careers.
actuator 5y ago
> Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic While the racist violence that happened was deplorable, it is entirely amusing to me that we are fine with calling it UK/Brazil/South African/Indian variant but not call it the China virus/flu. The same publications like Guardian which did not use the term China virus/flu because it was considered racist had no problem in using Brazil/Indian variant as the names of the variant. They are still doing it even after WHO came up with different non country based names for each variants. > The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely Wuhan lab leak being shot down so easily was the thing I found non convincing and the fact that so many journalists didn't cover it was surprising. While we might be able to ascertain that the virus is natural or man made easily, but a natural virus leaking out would seem high on the probability list to me as there is conveniently a lab at the same place where the outbreak first happened; and it was doing research on the same thing.
- triceratops 5y ago
  > we are fine with calling it UK/Brazil/South African/Indian variant Not anymore. They're getting Greek letter designations now.
  - actuator 5y ago
    Tell it to our politically correct liberal friends at Guardian, they are still using the country name. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/india-covid-variant-may-increase-risk-of-hospital-admission-early-data-suggests https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/india-covid-va...
    - triceratops 5y ago
      Maybe not every copy editor there has gotten the news?[1] 1. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/covid-19-variants-to-be-given-greek-alphabet-names-to-avoid-stigma https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/01/covid-19-varia...

dang 5y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27388952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27388952.