4 ms·

“Colonial Pipeline decided to pay the hackers who invaded their systems nearly $5 million to regain access, the company said.” That is the problem right there.

by ixacto 5y ago

“Colonial Pipeline decided to pay the hackers who invaded their systems nearly $5 million to regain access, the company said.” That is the problem right there. Someone just made 5MM tax free. Time to make paying ransomware illegal and that will stop the potential criminal market for ransomware attacks apart from political motivations.

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rodneyg_ 5y ago
If it was illegal to pay the hackers back, and the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack still happened, what would the options be? We'd have to turn the systems back on some way right?
- N00bN00b 5y ago
  Restore from backup.
  - gjs278 5y ago
    ok let’s say they don’t have one. now what?
  - rodneyg_ 5y ago
    Won't always be that simple. Let's say hackers also compromised the backups.
- grayfaced 5y ago
  They'd restore from backups, which is already what they did even after paying the ransom. More importantly, would the hack have happened in first place if they knew there was no chance of being paid? Every ransom paid just funds and encourages the next hack. The social damage is deserving of a large fine (i.e. 10x the ransom).
  - whiddershins 5y ago
    Cleary it wasn’t that simple or they would have just done that.
    - toomanyrichies 5y ago
      Apparently they ended up having to do just that even after paying the ransom: "The decryption software provided by the hacking group DarkSide, notes Bloomberg, was reportedly 'so slow' that Colonial Pipeline 'continued using its own backups to help restore the system.'" Source- https://mashable.com/article/colonial-pipeline-paid-bitcoin-ransomware/ https://mashable.com/article/colonial-pipeline-paid-bitcoin-...
      - rodneyg_ 5y ago
        I mean if you have backups then sure, don't pay. Every case won't be that simple. It also seems a bit odd that they'd pay if they truly had all the backups they needed.
  - gjs278 5y ago
    let’s say they have no backups. do you know what a hypothetical is? fucking moron.
  - rodneyg_ 5y ago
    Theoretically, no, the hack wouldn't happen if they knew there was no chance. Realistically, yes, the hack would still happen. Because there will never be a world where people don't pay ransoms, especially if they have no other options / backups.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    If they restored from backup, how do they know the attack wouldn't hit again immediately? The ransom wasn't just to decrypt the data, but to halt the attack. > More importantly, would the hack have happened in first place if they knew there was no chance of being paid? Why wouldn't it? They could easily been paid by another group to perform the hack, used the hack to manipulate stock prices, sold the stolen financial data, or, most likely, the ransom would have been paid indirectly though some other means, like hiring a "cyber security consultant."
virtue3 5y ago
they made a LOT more than 5m. I would have also been putting bets into the markets much earlier and cashing in on the stupid chaos. Continuing to let them do this with impunity is going to lead to escalated attacks.
- tempestn 5y ago
  Those bets could be easier to trace than the ransom payment though. Is there a way to make market bets completely untraceably?
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    Let's not do the criminals' jobs for them.
    - ixacto 5y ago
      It is just pointing out the obvious that there exist ways to transfer money obtained via criminal actions that may not be in compliance with various nations tax laws. Talking about activities that are illegal in one's own jurisdiction without intent to break the law is not illegal... Would posting a paper by the german federal police on a practical home heroin manufacture be doing the criminals job? https://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/Bulletin07/bulletin_on_narcotics_2007_Zerell.pdf https://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/Bulletin07/bulletin_on_na... Irregardless the groups that pulled this off already know this and have machinery like that which was revealed in the panama papers and crypto mixers ready to launder the money. What is now needed is to give real consequences to US-based companies and institutions that pay any sort of ransom to the state/non-state actors that are perpetrating these hacking events. This will remove the profit motive, and I don't care if it's Colonial Pipeline or UCSF, this behavior needs to stop and the criminals behind it need to know that there is not any money to be made.
      - virtue3 5y ago
        And we're supposed to just shut down our infrastructure while that happens? I don't think that's going to fix anything. I'm 100% sure companies will just pay quietly and not talk about it. Which makes this infinitely worse. The government invests a crap ton in defense, this should be part of it.
deleted 5y ago
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by ixacto 5y ago

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rodneyg_ 5y ago

If it was illegal to pay the hackers back, and the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack still happened, what would the options be? We'd have to turn the systems back on some way right?

N00bN00b 5y ago
Restore from backup.
- gjs278 5y ago
  ok let’s say they don’t have one. now what?
- rodneyg_ 5y ago
  Won't always be that simple. Let's say hackers also compromised the backups.
grayfaced 5y ago
They'd restore from backups, which is already what they did even after paying the ransom. More importantly, would the hack have happened in first place if they knew there was no chance of being paid? Every ransom paid just funds and encourages the next hack. The social damage is deserving of a large fine (i.e. 10x the ransom).
- whiddershins 5y ago
  Cleary it wasn’t that simple or they would have just done that.
  - toomanyrichies 5y ago
    Apparently they ended up having to do just that even after paying the ransom: "The decryption software provided by the hacking group DarkSide, notes Bloomberg, was reportedly 'so slow' that Colonial Pipeline 'continued using its own backups to help restore the system.'" Source- https://mashable.com/article/colonial-pipeline-paid-bitcoin-ransomware/ https://mashable.com/article/colonial-pipeline-paid-bitcoin-...
    - rodneyg_ 5y ago
      I mean if you have backups then sure, don't pay. Every case won't be that simple. It also seems a bit odd that they'd pay if they truly had all the backups they needed.
- gjs278 5y ago
  let’s say they have no backups. do you know what a hypothetical is? fucking moron.
- rodneyg_ 5y ago
  Theoretically, no, the hack wouldn't happen if they knew there was no chance. Realistically, yes, the hack would still happen. Because there will never be a world where people don't pay ransoms, especially if they have no other options / backups.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  If they restored from backup, how do they know the attack wouldn't hit again immediately? The ransom wasn't just to decrypt the data, but to halt the attack. > More importantly, would the hack have happened in first place if they knew there was no chance of being paid? Why wouldn't it? They could easily been paid by another group to perform the hack, used the hack to manipulate stock prices, sold the stolen financial data, or, most likely, the ransom would have been paid indirectly though some other means, like hiring a "cyber security consultant."

virtue3 5y ago

they made a LOT more than 5m. I would have also been putting bets into the markets much earlier and cashing in on the stupid chaos. Continuing to let them do this with impunity is going to lead to escalated attacks.

tempestn 5y ago
Those bets could be easier to trace than the ransom payment though. Is there a way to make market bets completely untraceably?
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Let's not do the criminals' jobs for them.
  - ixacto 5y ago
    It is just pointing out the obvious that there exist ways to transfer money obtained via criminal actions that may not be in compliance with various nations tax laws. Talking about activities that are illegal in one's own jurisdiction without intent to break the law is not illegal... Would posting a paper by the german federal police on a practical home heroin manufacture be doing the criminals job? https://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/Bulletin07/bulletin_on_narcotics_2007_Zerell.pdf https://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/Bulletin07/bulletin_on_na... Irregardless the groups that pulled this off already know this and have machinery like that which was revealed in the panama papers and crypto mixers ready to launder the money. What is now needed is to give real consequences to US-based companies and institutions that pay any sort of ransom to the state/non-state actors that are perpetrating these hacking events. This will remove the profit motive, and I don't care if it's Colonial Pipeline or UCSF, this behavior needs to stop and the criminals behind it need to know that there is not any money to be made.
    - virtue3 5y ago
      And we're supposed to just shut down our infrastructure while that happens? I don't think that's going to fix anything. I'm 100% sure companies will just pay quietly and not talk about it. Which makes this infinitely worse. The government invests a crap ton in defense, this should be part of it.

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