4 ms·

> Robin DiAngelo I'm going to have to start asking for better sources on antiracism than a white woman who makes a career out of corporate "diversity training.

> Robin DiAngelo I'm going to have to start asking for better sources on antiracism than a white woman who makes a career out of corporate "diversity training." Like, of course that's her entire thesis. White fragility is a very useful concept, for sure. But the way DiAngelo uses it seems to be more focused on making white people hem and haw and feel guilty for even trying instead of doing mutual aid, reading theory, forming community, anything actually helpful or useful. If I wanted to set up a strawman, that's exactly what I'd do.

sverona 5y ago
In case anyone finds this, I should probably clarify that my beef is with DiAngelo specifically rather than with CRT in general. I think that what she puts forth leads to unhelpful, performative activism, and I think she characterizes Black people erroneously as a monolith. In my opinion, the end result is white people getting bounced off of important work by one excessively moralizing book with a profit motive. For this and other reasons White Fragility is being taken off of some antiracism reading lists. I'll probably read her new book that's coming out soon, but my prior assumption is that it's more of the same. I hope to be proven wrong.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  I remain unconvinced that CRT is at all constructive and I find it peculiar that you recognise it as erroneous to characterise black people as a monolith when this is exactly what CRT does. My perspective aligns neatly with that describe here[0]. As Trevor Phillips would say[1], Critical Race Theory is exactly the idea I would invent if I were a racist. [0]: https://www.heritage.org/civil-society/commentary/how-leftists-critical-race-theory-poisons-our-discussion-racism https://www.heritage.org/civil-society/commentary/how-leftis... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU
  - sverona 5y ago
    These aren't the better sources I was looking for.
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      Could you expand on that? Are Phillips’ (a decorated former MP, and the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality, and also a black man) positions on racism invalid in your view? Is he unqualified? Are you better qualified? Or do you just find his views heretical?
      - sverona 5y ago
        His views are valid, but it would be ridiculous to claim he's every black person or even most black people.
        yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
        Oh absolutely, and that was never my claim. That is however the implicit claim of Critical Race Theorists. It’s a racist claim, which is why I’m challenging your support for it now.
        sverona 5y ago
        > That is however the implicit claim of Critical Race Theorists. You have provided evidence that it is the implicit claim of exactly one critical race theorist. > which is why I'm challenging your support for it now. This is a strawman. I began this discussion by pointing out that this very claim is counterproductive, which is why I'm not a fan of DiAngelo's work. Reasoning in the abstract about marginalized groups and the systemic issues they tend to face is not the same as asserting that they individually have all the same views or background.

sverona 5y ago

In case anyone finds this, I should probably clarify that my beef is with DiAngelo specifically rather than with CRT in general. I think that what she puts forth leads to unhelpful, performative activism, and I think she characterizes Black people erroneously as a monolith. In my opinion, the end result is white people getting bounced off of important work by one excessively moralizing book with a profit motive. For this and other reasons White Fragility is being taken off of some antiracism reading lists. I'll probably read her new book that's coming out soon, but my prior assumption is that it's more of the same. I hope to be proven wrong.

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
I remain unconvinced that CRT is at all constructive and I find it peculiar that you recognise it as erroneous to characterise black people as a monolith when this is exactly what CRT does. My perspective aligns neatly with that describe here[0]. As Trevor Phillips would say[1], Critical Race Theory is exactly the idea I would invent if I were a racist. [0]: https://www.heritage.org/civil-society/commentary/how-leftists-critical-race-theory-poisons-our-discussion-racism https://www.heritage.org/civil-society/commentary/how-leftis... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU
- sverona 5y ago
  These aren't the better sources I was looking for.
  - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
    Could you expand on that? Are Phillips’ (a decorated former MP, and the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality, and also a black man) positions on racism invalid in your view? Is he unqualified? Are you better qualified? Or do you just find his views heretical?
    - sverona 5y ago
      His views are valid, but it would be ridiculous to claim he's every black person or even most black people.
      - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
        Oh absolutely, and that was never my claim. That is however the implicit claim of Critical Race Theorists. It’s a racist claim, which is why I’m challenging your support for it now.
        sverona 5y ago
        > That is however the implicit claim of Critical Race Theorists. You have provided evidence that it is the implicit claim of exactly one critical race theorist. > which is why I'm challenging your support for it now. This is a strawman. I began this discussion by pointing out that this very claim is counterproductive, which is why I'm not a fan of DiAngelo's work. Reasoning in the abstract about marginalized groups and the systemic issues they tend to face is not the same as asserting that they individually have all the same views or background.