3 ms·

"When you dig back through US history, you see plenty of evidence of both a belief system that whites are the best" I'm referring to the criminal justice syste

"When you dig back through US history, you see plenty of evidence of both a belief system that whites are the best" I'm referring to the criminal justice system today. Is there reason to think it's more pro-White than pro-Asian or pro-Hindu? I only see evidence that the system today is anti-Black and anti-poor. I accept the historical examples you've given of pro-white attitudes, but I'm hoping to discuss today's reality since that's the point of contention. "I think most of what you're seeing is that it generally sucks to be poor and rural, full stop" You're right that this is most of it. But I believe there is unique institutional racism specifically directed towards poor rural white people in particular. The soft quota they face in employment and education and the hatred and derision uniquely directed towards them in particular (and towards no other group) from all cultural institutions. The white quota in the workforce, for example, is there to be filled by inner city whites with the right pedigree and right social values. The white quota in higher education makes it difficult for rural whites without the same early educational opportunities to have a chance, whereas a black rural person (even if they're a recent immigrant) will have an easier time, all else equal, for no other reason than they have the right skin color. From my perspective, this is evidence of institutional discrimination, but it runs in the opposite direction to what's claimed. "Meanwhile in NYC, black people are 16% of the state population but 53% of its prison population." I don't see this as evidence for institutional bias that exists today that's pro-white. Hindus do better than Whites in general. Is the system pro-Hindu? Nigerians immigrants do well. Is the system pro-Nigerian? Differential outcomes are not evidence that today's system is pro-white. There's certainly a historical legacy of slavery and discrimination that helped to create these inequalities. But it's not evidence for much beyond that if we're discussing the institutions of today.

munificent 5y ago
> But I believe there is unique institutional racism specifically directed towards poor rural white people in particular. I don't know what to tell you, man. I pointed out that the incarceration rate of blacks is dramatically higher in the US state that likely has the greatest concentration of poor white people. > derision uniquely directed towards them in particular (and towards no other group) from all cultural institutions. Sure, Hollywood makes fun of them, but I don't think that has a particularly significant material effect on the quality of their lives. (Though it does make them really angry and more politically active.) > Hindus do better than Whites in general. Is the system pro-Hindu? Nigerians immigrants do well. Is the system pro-Nigerian? There is significant selection bias here in that immigrants are not a uniform sample from their ethnicities.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  "pointed out that the incarceration rate of blacks" This doesn't change the reality of the anti-white institutional discrimination examples that I highlighted. And again, disparate outcomes aren't evidence of current discrimination or bias for or against any group. You could be right that Hindus do well in the criminal justice system because of selection bias, and whites do well because of specific pro-white bias that Hindus don't benefit from. But the burden of proof is on you to show that that's true. Do poor Hindus or poor Asians do worse than equally poor Whites? If you could show something like this, then you will have convinced me that the criminal justice system is pro-white. The only actual evidence I've seen is that the criminal justice system is anti-Black, and that evidence has nothing to do with disparate outcomes. Beyond that I haven't seen any evidence.

munificent 5y ago

> But I believe there is unique institutional racism specifically directed towards poor rural white people in particular. I don't know what to tell you, man. I pointed out that the incarceration rate of blacks is dramatically higher in the US state that likely has the greatest concentration of poor white people. > derision uniquely directed towards them in particular (and towards no other group) from all cultural institutions. Sure, Hollywood makes fun of them, but I don't think that has a particularly significant material effect on the quality of their lives. (Though it does make them really angry and more politically active.) > Hindus do better than Whites in general. Is the system pro-Hindu? Nigerians immigrants do well. Is the system pro-Nigerian? There is significant selection bias here in that immigrants are not a uniform sample from their ethnicities.

fighterpilot 5y ago
"pointed out that the incarceration rate of blacks" This doesn't change the reality of the anti-white institutional discrimination examples that I highlighted. And again, disparate outcomes aren't evidence of current discrimination or bias for or against any group. You could be right that Hindus do well in the criminal justice system because of selection bias, and whites do well because of specific pro-white bias that Hindus don't benefit from. But the burden of proof is on you to show that that's true. Do poor Hindus or poor Asians do worse than equally poor Whites? If you could show something like this, then you will have convinced me that the criminal justice system is pro-white. The only actual evidence I've seen is that the criminal justice system is anti-Black, and that evidence has nothing to do with disparate outcomes. Beyond that I haven't seen any evidence.