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I'm curious what the issue is here that seems unsolved? It's unconventionally displaying what it is recognizing, but the car isn't doing anything janky. The ca
by kempbellt 5y ago
I'm curious what the issue is here that seems unsolved? It's unconventionally displaying what it is recognizing, but the car isn't doing anything janky.
The car is properly recognizing traffic lights pretty darned well, considering the circumstance. It looks like it has a built in understanding that traffic lights are "always" stationary - hence, assigning them static locations on the 3D map - but it keeps having to update the model because the lights are actually moving.
This seems like a very non-obvious edge case that I wouldn't expect an ML team to even consider as a possibility. Now they need to program into the ML model an understanding that traffic lights are typically stationary. Which seems even more difficult to me, from a technical perspective - you don't want false negatives...
The car isn't braking or making any strange maneuvers from what I can tell. I'm actually impressed that it's handling it this well.
- sabhiram 5y agoSo you are impressed that they ran headfirst into a bunch of traffic lights because they did not know what to do? When you don't know what to do - do nothing. What if it was a traffic light on roller skates? Or a kid, dressed as a traffic light, on roller skates?
- codeulike 5y agoThe car is not under autopilot. The driver is driving. (the grey steering wheel icon would be blue if autopilot was on)
- comradesmith 5y agoStopping would be a form of action too. ¯\_ツ_/¯
- kempbellt 5y agoI don't know exactly how Tesla's safety systems are designed, but this is my guess. Collision detection systems (radar) are accurately not detecting an impending collision because the lights are not actually on a collision course with the vehicle. Object recognition systems (computer vision) are working very well, because they recognize the lights and are updating the 3D map accordingly, but the traffic light 3D model is not designed to be a moving object - unlike vehicles, which frequently move. Which is why we see the car "passing through" them. What we are likely seeing is simply a weird edge case in the output for the user-interface. I'd imagine if an object was actually flying at the car and the car could see it, it would brake accordingly. Also, the map is two-dimensional. The car frequently drives underneath traffic lights that I'm sure also appear "on top of" the car in normal cases. Object recognition and collision detection, from what I understand, are two very different systems.
- SahAssar 5y agoTesla is not using any radar/lidar systems for FSD/autopilot (anymore), it's all visual. It might be that there are completely different systems for recognizing obstacles and what is shown on the map, but this still raises the question why and why one of those systems seem to act like this.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tshaddox 5y agoThey’re unlit traffic lights. Would you rather the car slam on the brakes? But seriously, I’m inclined to be charitable here and assume that this is merely a quirk of the UI display. There’s no evidence that the autopilot did anything unsafe (apparently it wasn’t even engaged?), and until I see evidence of that I’m willing to withhold judgment. (I have seen evidence of other situations where Tesla autopilot did unsafe things and I’m in no way apologetic about those situations.)
- elihu 5y agoI believe other commenters have said that autopilot doesn't respond to stop lights, but aside from that: if a car sees an unlit stoplight it probably should stop. An unlit stoplight could mean that a bulb is burned out, or that there's a power failure in the area. In either case, continuing through an intersection is unsafe because you can't guarantee the cross-traffic is yielding right-of-way. In this case, obviously it's not a safety concern because the object is being hauled on the back of a truck.
- tshaddox 5y agoI routinely drive on roads where traffic lights are active only at certain times, and when they are unlit the appropriate behavior is to ignore them. Also, these unlit traffic lights were in the back of a truck, and should definitely be ignored.
- erik_seaberg 5y agoAre the hours marked? Everywhere I've lived expected me to treat a broken stop light as a stop sign, not just YOLO through. (They tape a trash bag over it until they're finished installing it.)
- elihu 5y agoInteresting; I've never seen that. Seems unsafe to me.
- jschwartzi 5y agoI just figured out how I can make sure self-driving cars stop for me when I'm trying to cross a street. Dress up as a red light.
- kbelder 5y agoOr wear one of these t-shirts: https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/design/stop+sign+mens+premium+t-shirt-D5d89fcfc162c5f464e8b9e22 https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/design/stop+sign+mens+premi...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- simondotau 5y agoI’d go further and predict that the stationary traffic lights are just an artefact of the visualisation and not the vision system itself.
- lvs 5y agoWorking-as-intended certainly isn't an argument I was expecting to see in this thread.
- olyjohn 5y agoIt's a feature, not a bug!