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I'm finding there are a certain group of people who are really struggling socially, and to them this is a good thing, even with the risks. Some people lost the

I'm finding there are a certain group of people who are really struggling socially, and to them this is a good thing, even with the risks. Some people lost their whole social network when the office went home, and they long for it to come back. As a person who can only handle so much social interaction, it is baffling, but to others, it is baffling to stay home all the time.

dcolkitt 5y ago
A lot of those people are only struggling in the first place because the broken office-first model required them to relocate to a metro where they have no family or social network. This is particularly bad in the tech industry, because the major tech metros are notoriously unsocial. People on the West Coast tend to have fewer friends and be less outgoing[1], so it's particularly hard to meet people when you relocate there from somewhere friendly like the Southeast. In a remote-first model people could stay located in the areas that suit them best socially. They could live in the hometowns they grew up in, or by their families, or in their college towns. Concentrated industries like tech are particularly bad, because there are so few metro options, compared to the geographic flexibility of doctors or accountants. Office-first in tech is a siren song of loneliness. First it draws us far away from our loved ones, which leaves us with no other option for meaningful human connection outside the workplace. [1]https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/We-seem-to-be-missing-0-8-of-a-friend-Poll-2839714.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/We-seem-to-be-missing-0-...
- zucked 5y ago
  I won't argue with this being a difficult issue, but I also want to push back a little bit on this notion that forcing people into a situation is a totally net bad thing. As an adult, you have precious few opportunities to make lasting, deep friendships. I consider myself an outgoing person with lots of shallow friendships, but my best, deepest friends are still the ones from High School, College, and the surrounding activities -- places I was, more or less, forced to be. Being forced to be somewhere, be it the office, your college dorm, or the US West coast, gives you a sense of shared experience. Is it ideal? Maybe not, but a lot of people are, for better or worse, forced into experiences that (can) lead to deep and lasting friendships. Candidly, I actually miss the office, even with all its warts. It builds a shared experience that is difficult to replicate digitally. I can see it in the faces of new hires since WFH started - despite best attempts at inclusion, they're still a little bit on the outside looking in.
  - nathanaldensr 5y ago
    To be frank, my life energy is not yours to consume. Your "shared experience" requires interaction from others, many of whom do not want to be giving it. Your perspective of "being forced to be somewhere" as a positive thing is selfish and unempathetic.
  - antonvs 5y ago
    > I also want to push back a little bit on this notion that forcing people into a situation is a totally net bad thing. Hey brother! I think slavery was a good idea too. The South will rise again! Seriously, that looks like some major Stockholm syndrome you have going there. Let's say you didn't have to go into the office every day. That gives you more time to socialize in your community. You can volunteer, take classes, go to a bar or club, whatever. If you want some sort of "hair shirt" experience, you can choose that. I once volunteered at a long term care facility to teach the residents about computers, computer programming, etc. It was fascinating because in doing that, you find people with those inclinations who may not have had the opportunity during their working lives to learn about such things. If you need to "be forced" to do things, I guess you do you. But that's something you really shouldn't be projecting onto other people.
itronitron 5y ago
People that have been struggling socially are not the sort of people I would want to be stuck in an office with, if for no other reason that they are going to be wasting my time at work.
bluefirebrand 5y ago
Maybe it's a bit rude of me but I'm fine letting the socialites struggle in isolation for a bit. Pay close attention to how you feel during all of this, extroverts, and remember it. You probably make introverts feel like that every day with your pushy social behaviour.

dcolkitt 5y ago

A lot of those people are only struggling in the first place because the broken office-first model required them to relocate to a metro where they have no family or social network. This is particularly bad in the tech industry, because the major tech metros are notoriously unsocial. People on the West Coast tend to have fewer friends and be less outgoing[1], so it's particularly hard to meet people when you relocate there from somewhere friendly like the Southeast. In a remote-first model people could stay located in the areas that suit them best socially. They could live in the hometowns they grew up in, or by their families, or in their college towns. Concentrated industries like tech are particularly bad, because there are so few metro options, compared to the geographic flexibility of doctors or accountants. Office-first in tech is a siren song of loneliness. First it draws us far away from our loved ones, which leaves us with no other option for meaningful human connection outside the workplace. [1]https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/We-seem-to-be-missing-0-8-of-a-friend-Poll-2839714.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/We-seem-to-be-missing-0-...

zucked 5y ago
I won't argue with this being a difficult issue, but I also want to push back a little bit on this notion that forcing people into a situation is a totally net bad thing. As an adult, you have precious few opportunities to make lasting, deep friendships. I consider myself an outgoing person with lots of shallow friendships, but my best, deepest friends are still the ones from High School, College, and the surrounding activities -- places I was, more or less, forced to be. Being forced to be somewhere, be it the office, your college dorm, or the US West coast, gives you a sense of shared experience. Is it ideal? Maybe not, but a lot of people are, for better or worse, forced into experiences that (can) lead to deep and lasting friendships. Candidly, I actually miss the office, even with all its warts. It builds a shared experience that is difficult to replicate digitally. I can see it in the faces of new hires since WFH started - despite best attempts at inclusion, they're still a little bit on the outside looking in.
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  To be frank, my life energy is not yours to consume. Your "shared experience" requires interaction from others, many of whom do not want to be giving it. Your perspective of "being forced to be somewhere" as a positive thing is selfish and unempathetic.
- antonvs 5y ago
  > I also want to push back a little bit on this notion that forcing people into a situation is a totally net bad thing. Hey brother! I think slavery was a good idea too. The South will rise again! Seriously, that looks like some major Stockholm syndrome you have going there. Let's say you didn't have to go into the office every day. That gives you more time to socialize in your community. You can volunteer, take classes, go to a bar or club, whatever. If you want some sort of "hair shirt" experience, you can choose that. I once volunteered at a long term care facility to teach the residents about computers, computer programming, etc. It was fascinating because in doing that, you find people with those inclinations who may not have had the opportunity during their working lives to learn about such things. If you need to "be forced" to do things, I guess you do you. But that's something you really shouldn't be projecting onto other people.

itronitron 5y ago

People that have been struggling socially are not the sort of people I would want to be stuck in an office with, if for no other reason that they are going to be wasting my time at work.

bluefirebrand 5y ago

Maybe it's a bit rude of me but I'm fine letting the socialites struggle in isolation for a bit. Pay close attention to how you feel during all of this, extroverts, and remember it. You probably make introverts feel like that every day with your pushy social behaviour.