4 ms·

How would that prove no one else ever worked on it?

gambiting 5y ago
You're right, it doesn't prove no one else hasn't worked on it- however there is absolutely 0 chance the dealership would win this in court, and I speak from experience of having to gone to court for similar issues. If she testified in front of the court that she only had the car serviced there AND had the documents documenting those services, the onus would be on the dealership to prove they haven't done the damage. They could defend themselves maybe by saying they use a special wrench that is physically incapable of stripping the screw(and having an expert's testimony to prove that), or any other physical or electronic signs of someone else having worked on the car - but if they can't demonstrate that then there's no way they would win such a case. Zero.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Think about who buys new Toyotas these days. It's a pretty well off crowd. Imagine this was a german luxury car dealership and it makes a lot more sense. The dealer is making a calculated (at scale, not in any particular case) business decision that these people have enough money that they'll just bend over and take it rather than create a hassle for themselves by fighting. If the dealer hadn't made business decision the service writer would be apologetic and offered a steep discount or whatever. But they did so the service writer is playing hardball. Not the business decision I'd make but I completely understand the incentive.
  - mulmen 5y ago
    I took my (recently out of warranty) BMW in to the local BMW dealer for a regular service. New coils, plugs and intake cleaning. When I got it back the check engine light was on and the car was idling rough where previously it was just notifying of scheduled service and running fine. The dealer took another look and determined that I had a bent intake valve. They quoted me $15,000.00 to fix it. They claimed this must be my fault, probably downshifting on the highway. I noted that the car ran fine when I dropped it off and a missed shift would bend more than one valve. Also, they were just doing service in the intake near the valves (with a media blaster) and that the car had 30 more miles than when I dropped it off. It seemed obvious to me that any engine damage was done by them. They insisted it was "impossible" that the damage was done by them. I said not to do anything and that I would tow it to another shop for another opinion. Strangely they suggested I could drive the car to another shop (with a bent valve?). I had it towed and the other shop determined that one of the new spark plugs had the electrode pinched shut so it was shorting out. They also noted that the coils did not look new. They installed a new plug (~$12.00) and the car ran fine. To be sure they also did a compression test and found no evidence of a bent valve. I went back to the BMW shop and got all my money back for the service. The service writer still had the balls to tell me that I "should be prepared for expensive service bills on these cars". I wonder how much of that reputation comes from shady dealerships ripping people off. I suspect quite a bit. I have no proof but I think the dealership sabotaged the car on purpose. There's no way any inspection would have missed the shorted plug. The car was immediately warning of the condition after startup and was misfiring badly. Dealerships absolutely will rip you off if they think they can get away with it.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      Yeah that kind of crap is pretty standard. Tech probably just screwed it up because flat rate techs are always racing the clock. If you were just dealing with the service writer the tech probably never even knew you had issues with it until the situation was too far gone to salvage.
      - mulmen 5y ago
        Yeah, it's a cliche at this point. BMW USA's response was so unsympathetic that I think they are ok with it as well. I certainly wont ever do business with them again. Even if the plug was improperly gapped from the factory (or dropped on the floor) the tech would have to miss that and the fact that the car ran worse when he finished than when it arrived. And that the computer said things are worse. It's either malicious or so incompetent that there's no practical difference. I talked to the tech on the phone before finding out about the plug. The tech definitely knew I was having trouble. Interestingly the tech did admit it would be possible to bend a vale doing the media blasting. I guess that's why service writers exist to "manage the customer".
BoorishBears 5y ago
The only reason a dealer would push back against the argument is if they felt they had a pushover I mean by that logic no work can ever be warrantied, who knows if someone went and opened up your oil drain plug if 10 miles out of the shop your car dies and it looks like someone forgot to fill it back up with oil? Literally the only benefit I can think of for dealer visits outside of exotics is that they're usually high volume enough that in cases like this they can come up to bat for a regular. That's it.
avgDev 5y ago
Well in the case presented, since when she got to the dealership oil was still in the engine, there is no way the oil pan was stripped before the service, as oil would immediately leave the engine without the drain bolt. It doesn't really matter if someone else worked on it or not. It would be highly unlikely the engine would still be running without oil, and the dealer would immediately tell her she came with no oil in the engine, not that her oil pan is stripped.

You're right, it doesn't prove no one else hasn't worked on it- however there is absolutely 0 chance the dealership would win this in court, and I speak from experience of having to gone to court for similar issues. If she testified in front of the court that she only had the car serviced there AND had the documents documenting those services, the onus would be on the dealership to prove they haven't done the damage. They could defend themselves maybe by saying they use a special wrench that is physically incapable of stripping the screw(and having an expert's testimony to prove that), or any other physical or electronic signs of someone else having worked on the car - but if they can't demonstrate that then there's no way they would win such a case. Zero.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Think about who buys new Toyotas these days. It's a pretty well off crowd. Imagine this was a german luxury car dealership and it makes a lot more sense. The dealer is making a calculated (at scale, not in any particular case) business decision that these people have enough money that they'll just bend over and take it rather than create a hassle for themselves by fighting. If the dealer hadn't made business decision the service writer would be apologetic and offered a steep discount or whatever. But they did so the service writer is playing hardball. Not the business decision I'd make but I completely understand the incentive.
- mulmen 5y ago
  I took my (recently out of warranty) BMW in to the local BMW dealer for a regular service. New coils, plugs and intake cleaning. When I got it back the check engine light was on and the car was idling rough where previously it was just notifying of scheduled service and running fine. The dealer took another look and determined that I had a bent intake valve. They quoted me $15,000.00 to fix it. They claimed this must be my fault, probably downshifting on the highway. I noted that the car ran fine when I dropped it off and a missed shift would bend more than one valve. Also, they were just doing service in the intake near the valves (with a media blaster) and that the car had 30 more miles than when I dropped it off. It seemed obvious to me that any engine damage was done by them. They insisted it was "impossible" that the damage was done by them. I said not to do anything and that I would tow it to another shop for another opinion. Strangely they suggested I could drive the car to another shop (with a bent valve?). I had it towed and the other shop determined that one of the new spark plugs had the electrode pinched shut so it was shorting out. They also noted that the coils did not look new. They installed a new plug (~$12.00) and the car ran fine. To be sure they also did a compression test and found no evidence of a bent valve. I went back to the BMW shop and got all my money back for the service. The service writer still had the balls to tell me that I "should be prepared for expensive service bills on these cars". I wonder how much of that reputation comes from shady dealerships ripping people off. I suspect quite a bit. I have no proof but I think the dealership sabotaged the car on purpose. There's no way any inspection would have missed the shorted plug. The car was immediately warning of the condition after startup and was misfiring badly. Dealerships absolutely will rip you off if they think they can get away with it.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Yeah that kind of crap is pretty standard. Tech probably just screwed it up because flat rate techs are always racing the clock. If you were just dealing with the service writer the tech probably never even knew you had issues with it until the situation was too far gone to salvage.
    - mulmen 5y ago
      Yeah, it's a cliche at this point. BMW USA's response was so unsympathetic that I think they are ok with it as well. I certainly wont ever do business with them again. Even if the plug was improperly gapped from the factory (or dropped on the floor) the tech would have to miss that and the fact that the car ran worse when he finished than when it arrived. And that the computer said things are worse. It's either malicious or so incompetent that there's no practical difference. I talked to the tech on the phone before finding out about the plug. The tech definitely knew I was having trouble. Interestingly the tech did admit it would be possible to bend a vale doing the media blasting. I guess that's why service writers exist to "manage the customer".

BoorishBears 5y ago

The only reason a dealer would push back against the argument is if they felt they had a pushover I mean by that logic no work can ever be warrantied, who knows if someone went and opened up your oil drain plug if 10 miles out of the shop your car dies and it looks like someone forgot to fill it back up with oil? Literally the only benefit I can think of for dealer visits outside of exotics is that they're usually high volume enough that in cases like this they can come up to bat for a regular. That's it.

avgDev 5y ago

Well in the case presented, since when she got to the dealership oil was still in the engine, there is no way the oil pan was stripped before the service, as oil would immediately leave the engine without the drain bolt. It doesn't really matter if someone else worked on it or not. It would be highly unlikely the engine would still be running without oil, and the dealer would immediately tell her she came with no oil in the engine, not that her oil pan is stripped.