5 ms·

Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate "new" tech into their vehicles. If you look at their current offering of transmissions, engines, or bat

• tibbydudeza 5y ago
  While VW/Audi goes absolutely bezonkers and then your car spends extended periods in the workshop because the engine had a major design flaw and killed itself (1.4L TSI Twincharger which was discontinued quickly).
  • ggamecrazy 5y ago
    Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta. I always chalked up reliability as a function of new tech introduction + focus on reliability. I figured Porsche gets decent numbers because of how relatively low-tech they are and the ridiculous prices they charge for optioning-in that tech (basic things like ACC or memory seats). Is there something else organizationally, process or product wise that Porsche does differently than the VW group? I do know that they have a separate factory w/ seperate engineering departments (:cough VW engineers design Lamborghini's). 1: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png
    • rasz 5y ago
      Dont know about that score, is that self reported? There is plenty wrong with Porsches, with their glued cooling line recalls, where glue degrades and lets go with age, and on some models (Macan?) this means cooling fluid spewing directly at your front brake disks and tires. Then you have electronics routinely going haywire. At least you dont have to worry about IMS bearings anymore.
    • radicaldreamer 5y ago
      Porsche has a bifurcated product offering... their sports lineup is extremely reliable, but their SUVs and more mainstream products are certainly not (these also tend to have brand new equipment which doesn't filter to the 911 for years)
      • tibbydudeza 5y ago
        Flat boxer engines in the sportscars are their own design - if it is V6 in the SUV's then it is Audi/VW.
      • ethbr0 5y ago
        Porsche sports also spend a ton of time racing, at various levels, which I'd imagine back permeates into the corporate culture and increases reliability. There's a lot of weaknesses that show up a lot quicker when you're holding an engine at redline.
    • ed_balls 5y ago
      What the score? (paywall)
      • ggamecrazy 5y ago
        Sorry! Here it is: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta. TBH some of ranking on the list makes anecdotal sense (Toyota is #2). Others do not (Mazda as #1?!). I'm questioning Consumer Reports methodology, how far back do they look? If it's only a sliding window of <3yrs I do not believe thats enough data.
    • wampwampwhat 5y ago
      I have no evidence to support this, but I'd theorize that some of it has to do with enthusiast owners (porsche) keeping up with recommended maintenance intervals, while budget owners (vw) and ignorant owners (audi) skip maintenance, causing nightmares down the line.
      • TheCapn 5y ago
        That's exactly the sentiment being shared on the reddit thread I just came here from: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/nr4awu/which_expensiveluxury_cars_have_a_bad_rep_but/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/nr4awu/which_expensiv... As a personal anecdote: my 2003 VW (1.8T GTI) had 330,000km when I sold it to a friend (it continues to run strong, but not sure the KMs). I did all the work myself and I did it on time. Biggest repair was AC Compressor, the rest was just routine maintenance and a couple $50 sensors. If a CEL came on I addressed it as soon as possible. At the same time, I had a friend with a similar year Jetta TDI which lit on fire around the 290k mark. Every time I was in her car the CEL was on, and I remember driving it home on a road trip once where you'd hold the pedal to the floor the whole way just to keep it at the highway speed limit.
    • benjohnson 5y ago
      I kid you not - Porsche copied Toyota and the Toyota Production System for good effect. https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2018/10/08/porsche-and-lean-manufacturing/ https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2018/10/08/porsche-and-lean-ma...
      • ggamecrazy 5y ago
        Curious if this is just marketing from Porsche. Makes no sense why VW wouldn't adopt the system for similar effects. I'm not sure I buy the reasoning but I'll keep a open mind.
      • Glawen 5y ago
        Everyone one copied the Toyota production system
        • benjohnson 5y ago
          It's fair to say GM did copy it well in the Saturn experiment, but failed to bring it fully to the whole company. VW can't help themselves from making complicated things. Honda is onboard, but Nissan still thinks in terms of supply side and will churn out garbage to meet next quarter targets. That being said, Tesla went back to early Ford for the full top-down flow system - and it's working for them. So while I love the TPS system and use it in my company, I'm willing to keep on learning.
    • Glawen 5y ago
      I know engineers who worked for Porsche, they are doing things independently from VW. The only thing they took from VW was the cayenne chassis and it's diesel engine. They were absolutely pissed by the diesel gate as they were unaware of it and quickly removed diesel from their lineup. They share some functions like brake SW or ACC, but they do their own engine and chassis. Otherwise they source their stuff alone, and due to the low sales number they struggle to find willing suppliers.
    • rodgerd 5y ago
      > Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large delta. Reliability was always a selling point for Porsches relative to their competitor. You could buy a 308 and be constantly fixing it, or a 911 and (so long as you didn't put it in a ditch) you'd have an everyday driver. The fact that it's dropping suggests that they're feeling the effects of VW's ownership, crapping their designs up.
• dotancohen 5y ago
  I don't think that this is true. The Prius was a ground-breaker in not only hybrid propulsion, but other tech aspects as well. And lets not forget the often-problematic but very advanced "robotic" transmission, which was really a microcontroller-and-servo-operated manual transmission that felt to the driver like an automatic.
  • post_break 5y ago
    Tundra used the same engine and trans for ages. Same with Tacoma. 4runner I believe still only has a 5 speed auto. They were one of the last big ones to offer android auto and carplay. They are extremely slow to changes.
    • ghaff 5y ago
      The 4Runner is a pretty old design at this point. I don't need its "real" 4WD features but I do like the sight lines and other more traditional SUV design. Not in a big hurry but would be interested to see what a real redesign looks like.
      • rodgerd 5y ago
        I would be surprised if the audience for those vehicles want lots of modern updates, as well.
        • ghaff 5y ago
          Assistive driving and infotainment is still nice given how vehicles are used day-to-day.
        • Snitch-Thursday 5y ago
          The less touchscreen, computerized fussy equipment in my off-roaders, the better. The fact that Toyota leans into that by waiting until 2020 to provide lane keeping assist on their 4Runners is a benefit. Body on frame, tried and true parts are all worth the trade-offs in ride comfort and MPGs. If I wanted those things, I would go buy a Highlander or other SUV-shaped car lacking the ability to go from pavement to AWD to 4WD to locked diffs if I get really crazy. I like to call my off-road truck (rig in the vernacular) 'too dumb to hack'. Not that it has any meaningful security, but it is only electronic, there is not enough digital logic for there to be any attack surface worth exploiting, and even if there were some exploit, it cannot do much more than shut down the engine due to faulty timings.
• anm89 5y ago
  I would consider this a feature. Most new cars would be non starters for me based on being crammed with junk tech that presents long term maintenance issues.
• skeletal88 5y ago
  The latest RAV4 model didn't have Android Auto/Apple whatever for a year after coming out. Now same with wireless version for that, all other car manufacturers have it on their cars, but not Toyota. It's not like a transmission or engine, it's software..
• gnicholas 5y ago
  One really surprising thing: if you want the Camry hybrid with the best mileage, you have to get the low-end model (no rims, most options not available). It has a different type of battery than the higher trim levels, and it gets 6-7 more MPG. I was shocked that this was the case in 2020, and strangely it is still the case in 2021. None of the dealers I spoke with could explain why this happened, or why it persisted across model years. You'd think that people would be willing to pay more for better mileage (and no, it's not due to weight differences of the premium equipment). I know my relative who was looking at hybrid Camrys would have been happy to pay more to have both the best MPG and various other features. Instead, they got the cheap model and added the blind spot monitors and called it a day.
  • BorgHunter 5y ago
    This is a trick more than one automaker does in the interests of creating a "green" (or "eco") trim, and usually they do it by speccing tires that are all-in on prioritizing fuel efficiency, sometimes with a higher recommended tire pressure too. The tradeoff is that they sacrifice some traction, and either have to go with smaller wheels (big wheels = luxury = $$$, for some reason--Toyota does this with the Camry Hybrid, putting 16" steelies on the cheap LE trim but 18" or 19" alloys on the others) to keep the same ride quality, or just accept a stiffer ride. It's worth noting, though, that as fuel efficiency goes up each increment in mpg is less valuable, so 6-7 mpg on a car that already gets 50 mpg is not as useful as 6-7 mpg on a car that gets 20 mpg. This is because the thing you're trying to minimize (fuel burned) is in the denominator of the measure. Countries that measure fuel economy in L/100km don't have this problem. Engineering Explained does a good job of showing how the math works out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQmwOX6Xds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQmwOX6Xds
    • gnicholas 5y ago
      They do tire tricks, but here it was actually a different battery chemistry that made the biggest difference. I completely agree with your assessment of the MPG difference. I tried explaining this to my relative, to no avail. The number for one vehicle was under 50 MPG and the number for the other vehicle was over 50 MPG, so it was a mental sticking point that I could not overcome.
• rodgerd 5y ago
  > Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate "new" tech into their vehicles. The Prius was ground-breaking work; had Chevron not killed NiMH batteries, they would have been shipping mainstream electric RAV4s in the 90s. Toyota are very happy to innovate where they think they can deliver to a high standard.