4 ms·

> People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it. > Where’s your evidence for any of t

> People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it. > Where’s your evidence for any of this? I stated an observation based on my own experience, and why I believe it. The evidence for my belief is my own observations, which were explained. > In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach. Parks and beaches will be policed differently, as public gathering places. I wasn't talking about those, even if the comment I was replying to was, I was referring to the more general topic of open containers in public in general, which is why I mentioned my street and a street a few blocks away. It's obvious you have strong feelings on this topic (or another topic that you want this to stand in for), from both the way you approached the conversation and how you pigeonholed my statement into some other narrative that it wasn't intended to apply to. I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for?

tekknik 5y ago
> I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for? What I'm going for is a stop to the race baiting. You have no evidence, just "feels", and we're now supposed to change society as a result. Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?
- kbenson 5y ago
  That would sound a lot more sincere if it made any sense. Let me spell it out for you, since apparently the actual content of my original comment and my note about how you seemed to be viewing it as "another topic that you want this to stand in for" were not clear enough: I said nothing about race. I wasn't intending to say anything about race. I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. I was making a case for poor communities, of any color. Honestly, your response makes no sense. Given I expressed how I thought I would be treated differently based on the area I was in (that was the only difference in my comparison), no matter what race you assume I am, I clearly wasn't basing the comparison on race. Because I wasn't making a case about race, but about class. > Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more? I wasn't presenting facts. I was presenting experiential testimony, very clearly as opinion, in case that made people think about the issue in a bit more depth. If I was presenting factual evidence, I would have looked up and presented that evident as references. I stand by my track record of doing this, and requesting it when people make factual assertions. > Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. That's very meta.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. Good. That’s clear now. > Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. Yes finding racism (or insinuating like you’ve done here) where there is none is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own!
    - kbenson 5y ago
      > Yes finding racism (or insinuating like you’ve done here) I'm not insinuating I've found racism. I'm insinuating that you making a conversation about race that wasn't about it originally is ironic as it's doing the same thing you complained about. You "felt" that I was talking about race and decided to make a dismissive comment because of that. Because of what you "felt" about my comment, because it surely wasn't based on what my comment actually said. If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted. This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist (I feel compelled to spell this out, as past experience in this conversation with you leads me to believe you will think that's what I'm trying to say), but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views. > ... is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own! So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did?
      - tekknik 5y ago
        > I'm not insinuating I've found racism. Hey great, I don't really believe you though. Especially not with all the association with poor being a race thing. Some groups are tired of the racist conversation already. Some people have moved onto calling it other things so the conversation still happens. If you're not one of them, great! It's very unlikely you will convince me however, given that you'd be a bit of an outlier speaking quite literally. > If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted. Please tell me on what I need to introspect on? > This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist... Oh I'm quite comfortable with my lack of racism, so nothing you can say would carry any weight. Sorry I felt compelled to spell that out. > but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views. What harm am I causing exactly? > So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did? I mean I just did what you did no?

tekknik 5y ago

> I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for? What I'm going for is a stop to the race baiting. You have no evidence, just "feels", and we're now supposed to change society as a result. Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?

kbenson 5y ago
That would sound a lot more sincere if it made any sense. Let me spell it out for you, since apparently the actual content of my original comment and my note about how you seemed to be viewing it as "another topic that you want this to stand in for" were not clear enough: I said nothing about race. I wasn't intending to say anything about race. I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. I was making a case for poor communities, of any color. Honestly, your response makes no sense. Given I expressed how I thought I would be treated differently based on the area I was in (that was the only difference in my comparison), no matter what race you assume I am, I clearly wasn't basing the comparison on race. Because I wasn't making a case about race, but about class. > Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more? I wasn't presenting facts. I was presenting experiential testimony, very clearly as opinion, in case that made people think about the issue in a bit more depth. If I was presenting factual evidence, I would have looked up and presented that evident as references. I stand by my track record of doing this, and requesting it when people make factual assertions. > Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. That's very meta.
- tekknik 5y ago
  > I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. Good. That’s clear now. > Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. Yes finding racism (or insinuating like you’ve done here) where there is none is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own!
  - kbenson 5y ago
    > Yes finding racism (or insinuating like you’ve done here) I'm not insinuating I've found racism. I'm insinuating that you making a conversation about race that wasn't about it originally is ironic as it's doing the same thing you complained about. You "felt" that I was talking about race and decided to make a dismissive comment because of that. Because of what you "felt" about my comment, because it surely wasn't based on what my comment actually said. If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted. This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist (I feel compelled to spell this out, as past experience in this conversation with you leads me to believe you will think that's what I'm trying to say), but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views. > ... is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own! So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did?
    - tekknik 5y ago
      > I'm not insinuating I've found racism. Hey great, I don't really believe you though. Especially not with all the association with poor being a race thing. Some groups are tired of the racist conversation already. Some people have moved onto calling it other things so the conversation still happens. If you're not one of them, great! It's very unlikely you will convince me however, given that you'd be a bit of an outlier speaking quite literally. > If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted. Please tell me on what I need to introspect on? > This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist... Oh I'm quite comfortable with my lack of racism, so nothing you can say would carry any weight. Sorry I felt compelled to spell that out. > but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views. What harm am I causing exactly? > So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did? I mean I just did what you did no?