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Oh, ok. This was a productive discussion wasn't it? :)

IgorPartola 5y ago
I do find it supremely frustrating to have these discussions because it seems like most times people on the other side of the argument simply question reality. It's like having an engineering discussion where you allow for 1+1 to equal 3 or more in some cases, and every time you have to add 1 and 1 you have to provide proof from a conservative website that shows that it does in fact equal 2 or else the other person just cries "fake news" and "what about..." or "mainstream media". It's almost like a targeted misinformation and propaganda campaign convinced half the US that facts aren't facts and that you can question anything for which there is a lot of evidence because, well, isn't it suspicious that there is so much evidence for it? "The truth is out there, you just have to find it" is my favorite: yes the FBI/NSA/CIA are clueless but anyone with a Facebook account can figure out some kind of grand conspiracy that's afoot...
- Moodles 5y ago
  From my perspective, you didn't address what I said at all and just got extremely emotional very quickly. I venture a guess that you sometimes find these conversations frustrating because it is you who isn't listening.
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    The article you posted and quoted amounted to 1+1=3. How do you expect to have a conversation about it?
    - Moodles 5y ago
      Oh, ok. I thought I raised some points that were at least plausible (e.g. transgender women in women's spaces) and then you start ranting about conspiracy theories, mathematics, the president not being able to read, not liking gay people and so on. Where did you see this conversation going? It was just so obviously doomed to fail with your attitude. I hope it felt good to take out some frustrations and now you feel better? But I doubt it. Just some friendly advice man. You goal should be to treat me with respect and try to convince me of your point of view, or at least mutually learn. When you respond like you did, using shame and outrage as an argument tactic, it doesn't work. I just think you're emotional, a bit of a dick and not willing to really engage in a genuine discussion so I just tune out. If anything, it'll just solidify what I think even more because it shows to me you don't have a proper retort.
      - IgorPartola 5y ago
        Look, when you talk about trans women not being allowed in women’s spaces as if it’s even a question, it’s not my job or goal or responsibility to try to convince you that you are wrong. It is exactly the same as if you brought up the voting rights act and wanted to debate whether black people should be allowed in white people’s spaces. What reaction do you expect when you make statements like that?
        Moodles 5y ago
        No it’s not. Where trans women should be allowed to go is far from decided in our society. Combat sports? Sports generally? Bathrooms? It’s nothing to do with an irrational fear or hatred of people who suffer with gender dysmorphia. Comparing it to black vs white segregation is ludicrous. It seems like a complex question and you just being outraged and wanting to instantly shut down the debate as if I’m a terrible transphobic person is very toxic behaviour. Shaming as an argument tactic might work on weak people when you have backup in the room in places like Berkeley, but it’s bullying. Fact is, it’s far from a consensus in our society, unlike racial segregation. Call me the same as a racist? Fuck off :)
        IgorPartola 5y ago
        If you feel personally attacked by this, there is probably a reason for it. The question you brought up wasn’t about combat sports. It was about “males who identify as females in women’s spaces”. And the thing is, this is a settled question by and large: it’s none of your business what’s in someone else’s underpants. Oh and give me your lunch money while I’m at it bullying you :). I’m so sorry to hurt your strong person feelings (wait, I thought only Berkeley snowflakes got their feelings hurt/could be bullied). One last bit: body dysmorphia is not a necessary condition to being trans. The way you cast a group of people around that diagnosis does seem to indicate that you see them as damaged and/or sick, which they are not. Trying to sound like you know what you are talking about while clearly having a cable news education on the subject makes you look worse, not better. Good luck and learn to be a better human.

I do find it supremely frustrating to have these discussions because it seems like most times people on the other side of the argument simply question reality. It's like having an engineering discussion where you allow for 1+1 to equal 3 or more in some cases, and every time you have to add 1 and 1 you have to provide proof from a conservative website that shows that it does in fact equal 2 or else the other person just cries "fake news" and "what about..." or "mainstream media". It's almost like a targeted misinformation and propaganda campaign convinced half the US that facts aren't facts and that you can question anything for which there is a lot of evidence because, well, isn't it suspicious that there is so much evidence for it? "The truth is out there, you just have to find it" is my favorite: yes the FBI/NSA/CIA are clueless but anyone with a Facebook account can figure out some kind of grand conspiracy that's afoot...

Moodles 5y ago
From my perspective, you didn't address what I said at all and just got extremely emotional very quickly. I venture a guess that you sometimes find these conversations frustrating because it is you who isn't listening.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  The article you posted and quoted amounted to 1+1=3. How do you expect to have a conversation about it?
  - Moodles 5y ago
    Oh, ok. I thought I raised some points that were at least plausible (e.g. transgender women in women's spaces) and then you start ranting about conspiracy theories, mathematics, the president not being able to read, not liking gay people and so on. Where did you see this conversation going? It was just so obviously doomed to fail with your attitude. I hope it felt good to take out some frustrations and now you feel better? But I doubt it. Just some friendly advice man. You goal should be to treat me with respect and try to convince me of your point of view, or at least mutually learn. When you respond like you did, using shame and outrage as an argument tactic, it doesn't work. I just think you're emotional, a bit of a dick and not willing to really engage in a genuine discussion so I just tune out. If anything, it'll just solidify what I think even more because it shows to me you don't have a proper retort.
    - IgorPartola 5y ago
      Look, when you talk about trans women not being allowed in women’s spaces as if it’s even a question, it’s not my job or goal or responsibility to try to convince you that you are wrong. It is exactly the same as if you brought up the voting rights act and wanted to debate whether black people should be allowed in white people’s spaces. What reaction do you expect when you make statements like that?
      - Moodles 5y ago
        No it’s not. Where trans women should be allowed to go is far from decided in our society. Combat sports? Sports generally? Bathrooms? It’s nothing to do with an irrational fear or hatred of people who suffer with gender dysmorphia. Comparing it to black vs white segregation is ludicrous. It seems like a complex question and you just being outraged and wanting to instantly shut down the debate as if I’m a terrible transphobic person is very toxic behaviour. Shaming as an argument tactic might work on weak people when you have backup in the room in places like Berkeley, but it’s bullying. Fact is, it’s far from a consensus in our society, unlike racial segregation. Call me the same as a racist? Fuck off :)
        IgorPartola 5y ago
        If you feel personally attacked by this, there is probably a reason for it. The question you brought up wasn’t about combat sports. It was about “males who identify as females in women’s spaces”. And the thing is, this is a settled question by and large: it’s none of your business what’s in someone else’s underpants. Oh and give me your lunch money while I’m at it bullying you :). I’m so sorry to hurt your strong person feelings (wait, I thought only Berkeley snowflakes got their feelings hurt/could be bullied). One last bit: body dysmorphia is not a necessary condition to being trans. The way you cast a group of people around that diagnosis does seem to indicate that you see them as damaged and/or sick, which they are not. Trying to sound like you know what you are talking about while clearly having a cable news education on the subject makes you look worse, not better. Good luck and learn to be a better human.