7 ms·

The quote was: "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself" Yes, the sentiment is (possibly) an

The quote was: "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself" Yes, the sentiment is (possibly) anti-israel, not anti-semetic, but the wording itself implies that Jews have insatiable appetites for war. I'm not saying it wasn't an honest mistake, but someone who is chief diversity officer at a major corporation should certainly be attuned to the difference between Jews and Israelis.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ant6n 5y ago
But it was also quoted worse in the tweets. "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself," (…) "If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Jewish people have endured and the insatiable appetite for vengeful violence that Israel, my homeland, has now acquired." It just became “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing” in the tweets.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ABCLAW 5y ago
  I think with the more fulsome context you've provided that the prior post's attempt to reduce his statement as critical of Israelis alone is a bit reductionist; his argument here extends to the diaspora that also unwaveringly support Israel in their expansionary policy. I don't feel that position is anti-Semitic either, but I think it needs to be noted for the sake of intellectual honesty. He is critiquing a LOT of Jews here.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Even if he isn't saying all Jews are bad, it still reads something like "I'm just saying Israel is insatiably, vengefully violent and [an awful lot of] Jews support Israel...". I'm all for charitability, but it feels like we're contorting ourselves--why would any tolerant person with a decent penchant for writing not keep a wider berth between their criticism of Israel and antisemitism? I understand that there are always going to be bad faith people who willfully misinterpret all criticism of Israel with antisemitism, but those people aside I've never found it particularly difficult to criticize Israel in a way which is unambiguously tolerant of and respectful toward Jews (and he seems like a better writer than I am).
- TMWNN 5y ago
  "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself" is a straight quote from the last paragaraph of the post in question, not a paraphrase or elided excerpt. https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamau...
  - ant6n 5y ago
    It’s not a straight quote if you delete the last four words of the sentence without an ellipsis.
    - TMWNN 5y ago
      The only thing I deleted is the period. "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." is the entire first sentence of the last paragraph. Again, people can read the linked original post and see for themselves.
      - ant6n 5y ago
        That’s not how this was quoted to claim he’s an antisemite. See this: https://mobile.twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1400065933083877376 https://mobile.twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1400065933...
        TMWNN 5y ago
        I did not look at any other source. Again, I am citing the post that got the Google diversity head in trouble, not anyone else's interpretation.
        ant6n 5y ago
        Well I was commenting on the business insider article that’s linked at the top of this comment thread.
sirjee 5y ago
Pretty sure he was not chief diversity officer 14 years ago but I agree it should have been "If I were an israeli...".
- grumple 5y ago
  Even then... do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Or every Chinese person for their governments treatment of the Uighur/Tibet/etc? Governments != people of a nation people often / usually don't approve of governmental actions.
  - sayhar 5y ago
    Thank you.
  - ska 5y ago
    > do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Not bloodlust, but partial responsibility. 'Tis the nature of democracy.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      No, that's merely the nature of collective blame, which should be avoided.
      - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
        certainly you can avoid being partially culpable for your nation's actions - by dropping out of society, refusing to pay taxes to it, and probably supporting yourself via a life of crime. If however you are a functioning member of a society and do things to support it you are partially to blame for the things that society does. That amount of blame is not the same for everyone - and for some people it is so minimal it hardly warrants mentioning - but you do have a share.
        sneak 5y ago
michaelmrose 5y ago
It wasn't a tweet they provided at least some of the surrounding context in the article.
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
Exactly. I'm a Jew (by heritage, though not by belief). I oppose Israel's actions WRT Palestine and related issues. The Israeli government seems to have that "insatiable appetite for war", but that's a pretty small subset of all Jews. Even the entire Israeli population is a small subset of all Jews.
- jobigoud 5y ago
  > I'm a Jew (by heritage, though not by belief) I never understood that concept. The idea that Judaism is transmitted from lineage is itself only a belief of Judaism. If you don't believe in Judaism there is no reason to believe in this particular fiction. This specific feature is obviously a hack on the reproductivity of the meme. There is no Judaism gene, it's not transmittable, it's not an ethnicity.
  - mchaver 5y ago
    > I never understood that concept. No problem! It certainly doesn't make sense if one approaches it from a Western Christian mindset. I am not trying to imply that is how you are approaching it, rather I mention this because Judaism often gets compared to Christianity, but I think they are quite different. It is better to think of Judaism as a tribe. Membership to this tribe is mainly given under two conditions: through matrilineal descent or through religious conversion. Some subgroups within the tribe have different membership conditions like recognizing patrilineal descent, others may not recognize conversions done by other subgroups.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
      Exactly this. It's a cultural thing, much like how you can be an American or a German or an African. There's no single ethnicity for any of those, but they're all cultural identities based on birth or citizenship.
david38 5y ago
He’s clearly referring to Israel, and since it’s a Jewish date, it’s reasonable to assume many / most Jews feel somewhat represented by Israel, voluntarily or not. Or at least that Israel’s actions reflect well or poorly on them in regards to non-Jews.
bjourne 5y ago
It's so incredibly wrong to pick lines from a text out of context like that to attack someone. It's exactly how some people tried to sink Bernie Sander 2020 presidential campaign by referring to his "rape fantasy" essay from the 1970s. Read Kamau Bobb's blog post in full (it's only six paragraphs or so). It s about how he imagines how a progressive Jew has to struggle with reconciling his commitment to Israel with his humanist views. His thought may have been misguided, and he may not fully have understood how Jewishness and Judaism works, but they are certainly not hateful towards Jews.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ant6n 5y ago

But it was also quoted worse in the tweets. "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself," (…) "If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Jewish people have endured and the insatiable appetite for vengeful violence that Israel, my homeland, has now acquired." It just became “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing” in the tweets.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ABCLAW 5y ago
I think with the more fulsome context you've provided that the prior post's attempt to reduce his statement as critical of Israelis alone is a bit reductionist; his argument here extends to the diaspora that also unwaveringly support Israel in their expansionary policy. I don't feel that position is anti-Semitic either, but I think it needs to be noted for the sake of intellectual honesty. He is critiquing a LOT of Jews here.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Even if he isn't saying all Jews are bad, it still reads something like "I'm just saying Israel is insatiably, vengefully violent and [an awful lot of] Jews support Israel...". I'm all for charitability, but it feels like we're contorting ourselves--why would any tolerant person with a decent penchant for writing not keep a wider berth between their criticism of Israel and antisemitism? I understand that there are always going to be bad faith people who willfully misinterpret all criticism of Israel with antisemitism, but those people aside I've never found it particularly difficult to criticize Israel in a way which is unambiguously tolerant of and respectful toward Jews (and he seems like a better writer than I am).
TMWNN 5y ago
"If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself" is a straight quote from the last paragaraph of the post in question, not a paraphrase or elided excerpt. https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamau...
- ant6n 5y ago
  It’s not a straight quote if you delete the last four words of the sentence without an ellipsis.
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    The only thing I deleted is the period. "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." is the entire first sentence of the last paragraph. Again, people can read the linked original post and see for themselves.
    - ant6n 5y ago
      That’s not how this was quoted to claim he’s an antisemite. See this: https://mobile.twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1400065933083877376 https://mobile.twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1400065933...
      - TMWNN 5y ago
        I did not look at any other source. Again, I am citing the post that got the Google diversity head in trouble, not anyone else's interpretation.
        ant6n 5y ago
        Well I was commenting on the business insider article that’s linked at the top of this comment thread.

sirjee 5y ago

Pretty sure he was not chief diversity officer 14 years ago but I agree it should have been "If I were an israeli...".

grumple 5y ago
Even then... do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Or every Chinese person for their governments treatment of the Uighur/Tibet/etc? Governments != people of a nation people often / usually don't approve of governmental actions.
- sayhar 5y ago
  Thank you.
- ska 5y ago
  > do we accuse every American of bloodlust for our nation's warmongering? Not bloodlust, but partial responsibility. 'Tis the nature of democracy.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    No, that's merely the nature of collective blame, which should be avoided.
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      certainly you can avoid being partially culpable for your nation's actions - by dropping out of society, refusing to pay taxes to it, and probably supporting yourself via a life of crime. If however you are a functioning member of a society and do things to support it you are partially to blame for the things that society does. That amount of blame is not the same for everyone - and for some people it is so minimal it hardly warrants mentioning - but you do have a share.
      - sneak 5y ago

michaelmrose 5y ago

It wasn't a tweet they provided at least some of the surrounding context in the article.

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago

Exactly. I'm a Jew (by heritage, though not by belief). I oppose Israel's actions WRT Palestine and related issues. The Israeli government seems to have that "insatiable appetite for war", but that's a pretty small subset of all Jews. Even the entire Israeli population is a small subset of all Jews.

jobigoud 5y ago
> I'm a Jew (by heritage, though not by belief) I never understood that concept. The idea that Judaism is transmitted from lineage is itself only a belief of Judaism. If you don't believe in Judaism there is no reason to believe in this particular fiction. This specific feature is obviously a hack on the reproductivity of the meme. There is no Judaism gene, it's not transmittable, it's not an ethnicity.
- mchaver 5y ago
  > I never understood that concept. No problem! It certainly doesn't make sense if one approaches it from a Western Christian mindset. I am not trying to imply that is how you are approaching it, rather I mention this because Judaism often gets compared to Christianity, but I think they are quite different. It is better to think of Judaism as a tribe. Membership to this tribe is mainly given under two conditions: through matrilineal descent or through religious conversion. Some subgroups within the tribe have different membership conditions like recognizing patrilineal descent, others may not recognize conversions done by other subgroups.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    Exactly this. It's a cultural thing, much like how you can be an American or a German or an African. There's no single ethnicity for any of those, but they're all cultural identities based on birth or citizenship.

david38 5y ago

He’s clearly referring to Israel, and since it’s a Jewish date, it’s reasonable to assume many / most Jews feel somewhat represented by Israel, voluntarily or not. Or at least that Israel’s actions reflect well or poorly on them in regards to non-Jews.

bjourne 5y ago

It's so incredibly wrong to pick lines from a text out of context like that to attack someone. It's exactly how some people tried to sink Bernie Sander 2020 presidential campaign by referring to his "rape fantasy" essay from the 1970s. Read Kamau Bobb's blog post in full (it's only six paragraphs or so). It s about how he imagines how a progressive Jew has to struggle with reconciling his commitment to Israel with his humanist views. His thought may have been misguided, and he may not fully have understood how Jewishness and Judaism works, but they are certainly not hateful towards Jews.