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30.2% of the world have internet access, so it's fair to assume many have not used a computer and will not know anyone who has when they start, especially in Af

by rythie 15y ago

30.2% of the world have internet access, so it's fair to assume many have not used a computer and will not know anyone who has when they start, especially in Africa when penetration is only 11.4% (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm) The car analogy is poor because you are required by law to take lessons in most (all?) countries. It's quite common for people to struggle to afford driving lessons and it slows down the adoption of cars, are you implying that the same should be true for computers? The search engine was the default page in the Firefox screenshot so it's safe to assume some will see it. UI should be constructed for a userbase, however, technically literate, westerners who have spent most of their adult life with easy access to technology, are not the only userbase or even the majority in the world.

vacri 15y ago
I think you missed my point. But, let's refute anyway: 30.2% of the world have internet access, so it's fair to assume many have not used a computer and will not know anyone who has when they start Just like many "technically literate" westerners 15 years ago. The car analogy is poor because you are required by law to take lessons in most (all?) countries. Please, learn to understand metaphors - I was illustrating a point, not making a mathematical proof. Also, I think you mean you are required by law to pass a test, not take lessons. Certainly when I did my driver's test, they didn't grill me on the amount of time spent learning, but on how I actually drove. The search engine was the default page in the Firefox screenshot so it's safe to assume some will see it. Yes, Firefox's default homepage is a custom page that is a front-end for Google. It is not Google. UI should be constructed for a userbase, however, technically literate, westerners who have spent most of their adult life with easy access to technology, are not the only userbase or even the majority in the world. If you're honestly suggesting for a single, globally accessible webpage, you're going to run into i18n trouble long before you have to worry about alienating unmotivated users. I find this point of yours weird given that I thought I was fairly clearly indicating that I was talking about current search engine userbases, not 'all possible userbases that might ever be' And if most of the world is not technically literate, so? They're not going to become any more so because of a simple friendly sentence on a search engine that they can't get to by themselves anyway. The same thing will happen in the developing world as it did here in the west: the motivated and eager blaze the way, and the knowledge filters down to everyone else through them. Twenty years ago we didn't even have Mosaic. Everything the laypeople of the west have learned about using the internet has been learned in a mere 15 or so years. Pretty amazing especially considering that the internet itself was still figuring out what it was useful for during that time. Before the 90s, laypeople in the west had access to technology in the form of tvs, remote controls, microwaves. Anywhere there is electricity, people have access to the same kind of technology - physical buttons control functions. If there's electricity, folks will have at least a similar level of understanding as pre-internet westerners (no point in providing electricity to people who don't have lights or appliances, after all). If there's no electricity... well... computers are going to have a hard time running.
- rythie 15y ago
  In the U.K. at least you are required to have experienced driver in the car every time you drive until you pass your test, this in effect is a lesson because they are required to pay attention and point out your mistakes. If every new computer user was required to spend every minute they used a computer with a experienced person until they took a test, then I would agree that computers do not need to be easier to use.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    What of toasters? I assume that in the U.K. you do not need any sort of certification whatsoever to use a toaster. Yet nobody suggests that we go out of our way to design toasters for the portion of the population for which toasted bread is alien.
  - vacri 15y ago
    In Australia that's only the case on public roads. You don't require a license or a second person in the car on private land (such as a farm). There's no legal block to someone teaching themselves the art of driving on private land without input from anyone else; they'll get their license as long as they pass their test. Computers on the other hand don't have the potential to maim or kill people in the hands of a naive user. Mistakes are free of cost (well, apart from a few seconds of time). And even to use said search engine, not only must you have been able to navigate to it, you also have to have an idea of using a mouse and a keyboard. The Enter key is not necessarily obvious. Neither are the control or function keys. Should computer cases be engraved with instructions on every step of the way? Apple isn't going to like having to engrave what the option key does, just in the off chance an utter naive should choose to use one of their computers. I guess what I'm getting at here is: how low do you want the bar?

by rythie 15y ago

vacri 15y ago

I think you missed my point. But, let's refute anyway: 30.2% of the world have internet access, so it's fair to assume many have not used a computer and will not know anyone who has when they start Just like many "technically literate" westerners 15 years ago. The car analogy is poor because you are required by law to take lessons in most (all?) countries. Please, learn to understand metaphors - I was illustrating a point, not making a mathematical proof. Also, I think you mean you are required by law to pass a test, not take lessons. Certainly when I did my driver's test, they didn't grill me on the amount of time spent learning, but on how I actually drove. The search engine was the default page in the Firefox screenshot so it's safe to assume some will see it. Yes, Firefox's default homepage is a custom page that is a front-end for Google. It is not Google. UI should be constructed for a userbase, however, technically literate, westerners who have spent most of their adult life with easy access to technology, are not the only userbase or even the majority in the world. If you're honestly suggesting for a single, globally accessible webpage, you're going to run into i18n trouble long before you have to worry about alienating unmotivated users. I find this point of yours weird given that I thought I was fairly clearly indicating that I was talking about current search engine userbases, not 'all possible userbases that might ever be' And if most of the world is not technically literate, so? They're not going to become any more so because of a simple friendly sentence on a search engine that they can't get to by themselves anyway. The same thing will happen in the developing world as it did here in the west: the motivated and eager blaze the way, and the knowledge filters down to everyone else through them. Twenty years ago we didn't even have Mosaic. Everything the laypeople of the west have learned about using the internet has been learned in a mere 15 or so years. Pretty amazing especially considering that the internet itself was still figuring out what it was useful for during that time. Before the 90s, laypeople in the west had access to technology in the form of tvs, remote controls, microwaves. Anywhere there is electricity, people have access to the same kind of technology - physical buttons control functions. If there's electricity, folks will have at least a similar level of understanding as pre-internet westerners (no point in providing electricity to people who don't have lights or appliances, after all). If there's no electricity... well... computers are going to have a hard time running.

rythie 15y ago
In the U.K. at least you are required to have experienced driver in the car every time you drive until you pass your test, this in effect is a lesson because they are required to pay attention and point out your mistakes. If every new computer user was required to spend every minute they used a computer with a experienced person until they took a test, then I would agree that computers do not need to be easier to use.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  What of toasters? I assume that in the U.K. you do not need any sort of certification whatsoever to use a toaster. Yet nobody suggests that we go out of our way to design toasters for the portion of the population for which toasted bread is alien.
- vacri 15y ago
  In Australia that's only the case on public roads. You don't require a license or a second person in the car on private land (such as a farm). There's no legal block to someone teaching themselves the art of driving on private land without input from anyone else; they'll get their license as long as they pass their test. Computers on the other hand don't have the potential to maim or kill people in the hands of a naive user. Mistakes are free of cost (well, apart from a few seconds of time). And even to use said search engine, not only must you have been able to navigate to it, you also have to have an idea of using a mouse and a keyboard. The Enter key is not necessarily obvious. Neither are the control or function keys. Should computer cases be engraved with instructions on every step of the way? Apple isn't going to like having to engrave what the option key does, just in the off chance an utter naive should choose to use one of their computers. I guess what I'm getting at here is: how low do you want the bar?