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My intuition from reading these quotes is that this person spent a lot of time thinking about socioeconomic differences in relation to race[0], so they see thin

by dgb23 5y ago

My intuition from reading these quotes is that this person spent a lot of time thinking about socioeconomic differences in relation to race[0], so they see things through that lens. It can come off as hostile, but the more generous interpretation that they simply emphasize this theme. [0] I dislike the term "race" in these contexts. In biological terms there is only one human race currently alive as far as we know. Every time I read or use it I feel like the pseudosciences such as social darwinists have won.

naivedevops 5y ago
About [0], in Portuguese we have abolished the usage of the term "race" for human beings for exactly that reason. Now we exclusively use the term "ethnicity". Edit: What about the downvotes? Are people going crazy?
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Which is why Brazil is such a beautiful post-racial utopia?
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Compared to Latin America as a whole? Yup, pretty clearly so. They're on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      In fairness the U.S. has been on a regressive trajectory for the last ~10 years, so anyone who isn't similarly regressive is "on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S.", strictly speaking.
      - whimsicalism 5y ago
        Just because problems are more visible does not mean they have regressed IMO.
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        When the racism is more visible because the racists feel more comfortable broadcasting their messages, and indeed when the media and academy effectively and institutionally endorse and promote those messages, that seems like textbook regression.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      > They're on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S. Having spent time in Brazil and as a luso-American, that is ridiculous. Brazil has an even bigger problem with racist police violence and extra-judicial killings than the US does!
      - naivedevops 5y ago
        Both Brazil and the US are really large countries. I'm not sure if comparison is so simple.
  - naivedevops 5y ago
    Using more precise terms in language has nothing to do with being an utopia. Really, as a native Portuguese speaker it sounds really weird to ask about the race of a human being.
whimsicalism 5y ago
The issue is that other people think in racial terms, and you need the nuance to be able to describe that thinking.
dbingham 5y ago
A racial construct has been used to shape every facet of our society and we can't make right those wrongs with out maintaining an awareness and understanding of that construct. We can't undo the historical (and current) harms of racism with out continuing to see race. This is why the colorblind approach to solving racial issues failed. All it did was make us blind to the continuing harms of racism and there for unable to change those systems and solve those problems. Kendi expands on it in great detail in his book "How to Be an Antiracist" Here's a TED talk version of the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCxbl5QgFZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCxbl5QgFZw
- tobesure 5y ago
  >A racial construct has been used to shape every facet of our society and we can't make right those wrongs with out maintaining an awareness and understanding of that construct. This is a dangerously myopic view of the development of this country and more importantly it ignores progress over the last few decades. The fact that blacks have not achieved representational parity or wealth equity yet does not mean that that the path of race blindness was not working. By all metrics it was working, and there must be room to discuss the internal cultural issues within the black community that account for the remaining lack of progress. Instead by silencing any such criticism we are falsely blaming whites as a demographic for cultural change that is beyond their control, and artificially forcing transfer of power and wealth from said demographic in a misguided attempt to correct past wrongs, in a manner that is fundamentally at odds with the principles of meritocracy that are critical to a functioning society. Hiring minorities for the color of their skin is no better than hiring whites for the color of their skin. The combination of a fundamentally racist theory/policy and vicious cancellation of anyone who publicly criticizes the movement is going to lead to severe backlash. It's immoral at its core. You can't have your cake and eat it too - either racism is acceptable and we have the freedom to discuss when and where it is acceptable, or racism is unacceptable. Wordplay with euphemisms which disguise the racist nature of CRT inspired policies is intellectually dishonest and not sustainable.
- morelisp 5y ago
  On this topic I strongly recommend Racecraft by Karen and Barbara Fields. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233136/racecraft-by-karen-e-fields-and-barbara-j-fields/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233136/racecraft-by... "Race-blind" anti-racism is like "money-blind" anti-poverty programs. You can't effectively fight racism when you ignore its most fundamental product.

by dgb23 5y ago

naivedevops 5y ago

About [0], in Portuguese we have abolished the usage of the term "race" for human beings for exactly that reason. Now we exclusively use the term "ethnicity". Edit: What about the downvotes? Are people going crazy?

whimsicalism 5y ago
Which is why Brazil is such a beautiful post-racial utopia?
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Compared to Latin America as a whole? Yup, pretty clearly so. They're on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    In fairness the U.S. has been on a regressive trajectory for the last ~10 years, so anyone who isn't similarly regressive is "on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S.", strictly speaking.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      Just because problems are more visible does not mean they have regressed IMO.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        When the racism is more visible because the racists feel more comfortable broadcasting their messages, and indeed when the media and academy effectively and institutionally endorse and promote those messages, that seems like textbook regression.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    > They're on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S. Having spent time in Brazil and as a luso-American, that is ridiculous. Brazil has an even bigger problem with racist police violence and extra-judicial killings than the US does!
    - naivedevops 5y ago
      Both Brazil and the US are really large countries. I'm not sure if comparison is so simple.
- naivedevops 5y ago
  Using more precise terms in language has nothing to do with being an utopia. Really, as a native Portuguese speaker it sounds really weird to ask about the race of a human being.

whimsicalism 5y ago

The issue is that other people think in racial terms, and you need the nuance to be able to describe that thinking.

dbingham 5y ago

A racial construct has been used to shape every facet of our society and we can't make right those wrongs with out maintaining an awareness and understanding of that construct. We can't undo the historical (and current) harms of racism with out continuing to see race. This is why the colorblind approach to solving racial issues failed. All it did was make us blind to the continuing harms of racism and there for unable to change those systems and solve those problems. Kendi expands on it in great detail in his book "How to Be an Antiracist" Here's a TED talk version of the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCxbl5QgFZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCxbl5QgFZw

tobesure 5y ago
>A racial construct has been used to shape every facet of our society and we can't make right those wrongs with out maintaining an awareness and understanding of that construct. This is a dangerously myopic view of the development of this country and more importantly it ignores progress over the last few decades. The fact that blacks have not achieved representational parity or wealth equity yet does not mean that that the path of race blindness was not working. By all metrics it was working, and there must be room to discuss the internal cultural issues within the black community that account for the remaining lack of progress. Instead by silencing any such criticism we are falsely blaming whites as a demographic for cultural change that is beyond their control, and artificially forcing transfer of power and wealth from said demographic in a misguided attempt to correct past wrongs, in a manner that is fundamentally at odds with the principles of meritocracy that are critical to a functioning society. Hiring minorities for the color of their skin is no better than hiring whites for the color of their skin. The combination of a fundamentally racist theory/policy and vicious cancellation of anyone who publicly criticizes the movement is going to lead to severe backlash. It's immoral at its core. You can't have your cake and eat it too - either racism is acceptable and we have the freedom to discuss when and where it is acceptable, or racism is unacceptable. Wordplay with euphemisms which disguise the racist nature of CRT inspired policies is intellectually dishonest and not sustainable.
morelisp 5y ago
On this topic I strongly recommend Racecraft by Karen and Barbara Fields. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233136/racecraft-by-karen-e-fields-and-barbara-j-fields/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233136/racecraft-by... "Race-blind" anti-racism is like "money-blind" anti-poverty programs. You can't effectively fight racism when you ignore its most fundamental product.