4 ms·

My grandfather bought a computer in 2000 to replace his ancient word processor. When I visited him, he said he'd been using it a lot with Microsoft Works. But I

My grandfather bought a computer in 2000 to replace his ancient word processor. When I visited him, he said he'd been using it a lot with Microsoft Works. But I couldn't find any documents on the hard drive. It was only when I found a huge drawer full of used floppies and remembered what the "save" button looked like that comprehension dawned...

Tiomaidh 15y ago
Many icon sets (on Linux, at least) use a picture of a hard drive instead of a floppy [1]. Which, though more correct, still worries me. Anybody who recognizes the icon as a picture of a hard drive isn't going to be confused by the concept of saving...do we need a similar icon that uses a picture of an entire computer instead? Should it be a laptop or desktop? [1] - http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-xampp-control-panel.desktop-.local-share-applications-gedit.png http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-xam...
- andos 15y ago
  Why do we still need to save explicitly?
  - Tiomaidh 15y ago
    This came up elsewhere in the thread, see my response there: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2738851 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2738851
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    1) because people tend to like clicking save or pressing ctrl-s. 2) to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch)
    - andos 15y ago
      to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch) Exactly. Today we use save and save-as as crippled forms of versioning. We can do better.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different media/locations. Furthermore, it is easy. Power users already have their more powerful alternatives and non-power users are used to what they know. If it ain't broke...
        andos 15y ago
        Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different media/locations. Yeah, that too. Duplicate, or export, or copy. Power users already have their more powerful alternatives and non-power users are used to what they know. What?! Why should only “power users” be allowed the luxury of never losing important data? We can make that easy too.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. Non-power users don't need full-blown version control, there are plenty of more straight-forward ways of making sure users don't lose their data than that. Save-as is not mutually exclusive with automated backup systems, or undo systems. Furthermore, nobody is forbidding them from using the tools "power-users" use. The only difference between power users and regular users is what tools they choose to use.
        andos 15y ago
        I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. Do you believe the solutions we have today are decent enough and cannot be improved further? I wish handling files was so simple that even those you call “non power-users” (i.e. pretty much everyone) could work with versioned files. Note that I am neither saying it's easy nor that it is appropriate for every program. But it is definitely possible: http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html
r00fus 15y ago
Glad that OSX Lion will do away with the need for this annoying "feature" completely. I've got my parents using Spotlight and they just dump files into the Documents folder. They are much happier with find>file than doing the browse>navigate.>.>.>file. If they never had to select to save files to begin with, it would be even easier.

Tiomaidh 15y ago

Many icon sets (on Linux, at least) use a picture of a hard drive instead of a floppy [1]. Which, though more correct, still worries me. Anybody who recognizes the icon as a picture of a hard drive isn't going to be confused by the concept of saving...do we need a similar icon that uses a picture of an entire computer instead? Should it be a laptop or desktop? [1] - http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-xampp-control-panel.desktop-.local-share-applications-gedit.png http://cshared.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screenshot-xam...

andos 15y ago
Why do we still need to save explicitly?
- Tiomaidh 15y ago
  This came up elsewhere in the thread, see my response there: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2738851 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2738851
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  1) because people tend to like clicking save or pressing ctrl-s. 2) to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch)
  - andos 15y ago
    to complement save-as (aka, poor-man's branch) Exactly. Today we use save and save-as as crippled forms of versioning. We can do better.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different media/locations. Furthermore, it is easy. Power users already have their more powerful alternatives and non-power users are used to what they know. If it ain't broke...
      - andos 15y ago
        Save-as also provides the function of being able to save to different media/locations. Yeah, that too. Duplicate, or export, or copy. Power users already have their more powerful alternatives and non-power users are used to what they know. What?! Why should only “power users” be allowed the luxury of never losing important data? We can make that easy too.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. Non-power users don't need full-blown version control, there are plenty of more straight-forward ways of making sure users don't lose their data than that. Save-as is not mutually exclusive with automated backup systems, or undo systems. Furthermore, nobody is forbidding them from using the tools "power-users" use. The only difference between power users and regular users is what tools they choose to use.
        andos 15y ago
        I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. Do you believe the solutions we have today are decent enough and cannot be improved further? I wish handling files was so simple that even those you call “non power-users” (i.e. pretty much everyone) could work with versioned files. Note that I am neither saying it's easy nor that it is appropriate for every program. But it is definitely possible: http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html

r00fus 15y ago

Glad that OSX Lion will do away with the need for this annoying "feature" completely. I've got my parents using Spotlight and they just dump files into the Documents folder. They are much happier with find>file than doing the browse>navigate.>.>.>file. If they never had to select to save files to begin with, it would be even easier.