5 ms·

it’s a colonial ethnostate Palestine is not an ethnostate That's a strange view on the situation. Let's say I give you a choice. 1. Be a practicing Jew living

it’s a colonial ethnostate Palestine is not an ethnostate That's a strange view on the situation. Let's say I give you a choice. 1. Be a practicing Jew living in Palestinian-controlled territory. 2. Be a practicing Muslim living in Israel. I'd definitely choose 2, choosing 1 would be suicide. who rightfully controls the area occupied by Israel The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel?

cool_dude85 5y ago
>I'd definitely choose 2, choosing 1 would be suicide. Isn't choice 1 called being a settler? As far as I know they make up 10% or so of the Jewish population in the region, a far cry from suicide.
anoncake 5y ago
> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? When? The region of Palestine was majority Muslim when Israel was founded. That your ancestors lived in a region doesn't give you any rights to it. If anyone has a birthright to a region, it's those who were born there and no one else.
- 8note 5y ago
  Why would Israel's founding matter then? What matters is who's being born there now, not where your grandparents were born
  - anoncake 5y ago
    Sure.
robinsoh 5y ago
> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? My maternal ancestry is of the Bering Strait islander and First peoples. Does that make me an indigenous person for the entirety of Americas and thus give me the right to control and occupy the entirety of America and expel all the "recent" migrants? Because that's the equivalent of claiming a blond haired blue eyed German Ashkenazi with a couple of generations in New York is somehow indigenous to the area of historic Judea and thus has the right to expel a different tribe of Semitic people who have only been there for say what, a thousand years? I'm no expert but doesn't the Torah directly say that the Jews took Canaan from the Canaanites as directed by Yahweh? Wouldn't that make Canaanites the actual indigenous people of that territory? So would Canaanites thus be accorded the right to control and occupy that territory using your logic?
lisper 5y ago
> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. No. Even according to their/our [1] own mythology, the indigenous people were the Canaanites. [1] I am ethnically Jewish. My parents were both born in Israel (except that it was still Palestine at the time). I grew up speaking Hebrew. But I do not self-identify as a Jew and I am highly critical of the conduct of the state of Israel. It has quite clearly become an apartheid state, and think that is reprehensible. But I am also a descendant of Holocaust survivors, so I am mindful of the very real historical oppression of Jews, and the importance of Israel is pushing back against that oppression. It's a very thorny problem with very few unambiguous protagonists. But no matter how you slice it, promulgating falsehoods like that Jews are the indigenous people of Palestine is unhelpful.
door101 5y ago
> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? This is a fictional narrative constructed to justify the state of Israel. It has no basis in historical fact -- there never existed a Jewish ethnostate in the territory known as Palestine, this is a modern construction. Regardless, I don't believe in ethnostates -- of any ethnicity, anywhere.

cool_dude85 5y ago

>I'd definitely choose 2, choosing 1 would be suicide. Isn't choice 1 called being a settler? As far as I know they make up 10% or so of the Jewish population in the region, a far cry from suicide.

anoncake 5y ago

> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? When? The region of Palestine was majority Muslim when Israel was founded. That your ancestors lived in a region doesn't give you any rights to it. If anyone has a birthright to a region, it's those who were born there and no one else.

8note 5y ago
Why would Israel's founding matter then? What matters is who's being born there now, not where your grandparents were born
- anoncake 5y ago
  Sure.

robinsoh 5y ago

> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? My maternal ancestry is of the Bering Strait islander and First peoples. Does that make me an indigenous person for the entirety of Americas and thus give me the right to control and occupy the entirety of America and expel all the "recent" migrants? Because that's the equivalent of claiming a blond haired blue eyed German Ashkenazi with a couple of generations in New York is somehow indigenous to the area of historic Judea and thus has the right to expel a different tribe of Semitic people who have only been there for say what, a thousand years? I'm no expert but doesn't the Torah directly say that the Jews took Canaan from the Canaanites as directed by Yahweh? Wouldn't that make Canaanites the actual indigenous people of that territory? So would Canaanites thus be accorded the right to control and occupy that territory using your logic?

lisper 5y ago

> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. No. Even according to their/our [1] own mythology, the indigenous people were the Canaanites. [1] I am ethnically Jewish. My parents were both born in Israel (except that it was still Palestine at the time). I grew up speaking Hebrew. But I do not self-identify as a Jew and I am highly critical of the conduct of the state of Israel. It has quite clearly become an apartheid state, and think that is reprehensible. But I am also a descendant of Holocaust survivors, so I am mindful of the very real historical oppression of Jews, and the importance of Israel is pushing back against that oppression. It's a very thorny problem with very few unambiguous protagonists. But no matter how you slice it, promulgating falsehoods like that Jews are the indigenous people of Palestine is unhelpful.

door101 5y ago

> The Jewish people were the indigenous people of that territory. In what way do they not rightfully control and occupy Israel? This is a fictional narrative constructed to justify the state of Israel. It has no basis in historical fact -- there never existed a Jewish ethnostate in the territory known as Palestine, this is a modern construction. Regardless, I don't believe in ethnostates -- of any ethnicity, anywhere.