47 ms·

It is Anti-Semitic in that he is lumping all jews in with Israel. I am a Jew, America is my homeland. I live here and am an American. I am not an Israeli. I giv

It is Anti-Semitic in that he is lumping all jews in with Israel. I am a Jew, America is my homeland. I live here and am an American. I am not an Israeli. I give almost zero thought to Israel in my day to day. Jews are consistently labeled with an "other" tag, we are not Americans, we are Jews and Israel is our country. Also "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. Self defense is undoubtedly an instinct, but I would be afraid of my increasing insensitivity to the suffering others. My greatest torment would be that I’ve misinterpreted the identity offered by my history and transposed spiritual and human compassion with self righteous impunity." How is that anything except Anti-Semitic?

lacksconfidence 5y ago
Replace jew with 'israeli' in every occurance. Who's fault is it that israel intentionally tried to muddy the water and make the word confusing? I don't see any anti-semitism here. I see here concern that israel does not care about the humanity of their neighbors.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  He said Jew, not Israeli. He is intentional in the use as the entire article is about Jews and Israel. Also the person in question is not an idiot, he is a mature adult smart enough to work in stem at Google. Your argument essentially absolves any anti semitic statements / actions by blaming the Jews for it. This is exactly the definition of anti-semitism, and now I am speaking about your words, not his.
  - lacksconfidence 5y ago
    I'm being as clear as i can, when I read the document I don't see anything about "the jewish race". What i see is commentary on the jewish nation of israel. I can only blame israel for bluring that distinction as much as possible.
    - wonderwonder 5y ago
      No need to clarify, I very much understand what you see. The fact that that is what you see is the problem.
      - lacksconfidence 5y ago
        Honestly, I have no clue what you are trying to say. Clearly we have different definitions of anti-semitism? To me anti-semitism is a form of racism. By definition being opposed to the political actions of a nation is not racism. It could have underlying racist motives, but you cannot ascribe those from the position that a nation state is doing inappropriate things.
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    questioning the definition of anti semitism is anti semitic?
  - mikewarot 5y ago
    >He is intentional in the use as the entire article is about Jews and Israel. Determining intent from a single page of text is about as solvable as the halting problem.
- throwusawayus 5y ago
  I'm Jewish, and I personally found the post to be offensive and anti-semitic. Israel is not my "homeland". I've never been to Israel, let alone lived there. My parents have never been to Israel. You'd have to go back over 2000 years to find an ancestor of mine who lived in Israel. I have no connection whatsoever with the actions of the Israeli government. So if you attribute their actions to me, simply because I am Jewish, that is by definition racist and anti-semitic. Imagine if the non-black head of diversity at a major US corporation wrote a post titled "If I were Black", directly tying the actions of modern-day African governments to all African Americans. Or a post titled "If I were Catholic" doing the same thing to all US Catholics based on actions of the Vatican or even just the Pope. This sort of thing happened in the US decades ago and was acceptable then, but is not even remotely acceptable now, nor was it acceptable when this post was written.
  - lacksconfidence 5y ago
    Thanks for the commentary, it's a useful perspective. Perhaps it depends on many things, but i feel like this post is not attributing these actions to you, in any way. My reading of the actual actions being criticised in that there is no way the author could mean anything other than the jewish state of israel. Working backwards from there, it's clear to me that any reference to jew is simply because AIPAC and western media in general have spent the last ~50 years blurring the discourse to the point where Jew ~= Israeli.
    - throwusawayus 5y ago
      Among other blatantly offensive things, he directly said "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." Certainly sounds to me like he's attributing these actions to me and all other Jewish people. Stop blaming "the media". If the head of diversity of one of the largest corporations in the world doesn't understand the difference between a Jewish person and an Israeli, they are not qualified for their position.
      - vidarh 5y ago
- balls187 5y ago
  That is an absurd argument. Replace "Jew" with "Krogan..." The blog post took aim at Jewish people, not the policies of Israeli government. Even it's title "If I were a Jew" is problematic. https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Krogan https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Krogan
bagacrap 5y ago
the group that called him out on Twitter are clearly Zionists, though, not Jews who want nothing to do with Israel. I think a Jew who never thinks about Israel is likely to read that essay and think it doesn't apply to them. If someone wrote "man, people in Colorado like to go on shooting rampages" I would think to myself, "yeah, that's right, we should not sell ar15s to folks; also, what is it about this place that affects mental health?" I would not take offense just because I happen to live there.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  He called out Jews, not Israelis. Can you think of any other race that is expected to ignore comments that specifically insults their race and think "doesn't apply to me".
hirundo 5y ago
The first sentence sounds anti-semitic to me. The second does not. It's well worth being concerned about ones insensitivity to suffering in the conduct of self-defense. It may be particularly important if you feel that defense is entirely righteous. If hurting anyone for any reason does not provoke self-reflection, something is wrong. That's completely consistent with doing what is necessary to defend your loved ones, including violence.
csa 5y ago
> How is that anything except Anti-Semitic? As you frame it, there is no other way to interpret his words (found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...). If one takes a charitable read of his words, it might be less damning (although definitely questionable in terms of style): 1. It’s clear in the post that he’s speaking about Israeli Jews. While even Israeli Jews are not monolithic, and speaking of them like they are is suspect, he could have been clearer by using “Israeli Jew” rather than “Jew” in this post. 2. Furthermore, it seems more like he is speaking about “Israeli Jews” both in terms of being an actual Israeli Jew as well as a term used to represent the Israeli government. 3. He use the wrong pronouns. He used I/me when we/us would have been more standard when speaking of the acts of a nation state (esp. a democratic one). Even this creates problems since it would paint Israeli Jews as being monolithic in their thoughts (my experience is that they very very much are not monolithic). That said, with a charitable read, the stylistic use of I/me is definitely more powerful and more personal, and it probably provided the effect the author wanted of making the violence feel personal. As an editor, I would have given this stylistic choice a firm veto, but try explaining that to a young person who is finding their voice and is discovering the amount of violence towards various peoples that is occurring around the world. TL;DR - Another way of interpreting the post is that a young kid trying to find a powerful voice made some very suspect stylistic choices when trying to write about the government of Israel. Thanks to ‘andrewla for finding the original post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27381980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27381980
- stickfigure 5y ago
  I find the whole thing offensive in concept, even if he had used "Israeli" instead of "Jew". If some white dude wrote "If I was a Black, I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Blacks have endured and the insatiable appetite for crime that permeates inner cities", we would rightly castigate him as a virulent racist. It also wouldn't matter if you replaced "Black" with African, or Senegalese, or Mexican, or any other nationality. You aren't that thing, you don't have the experiences of that culture, you don't get to write from that perspective.

lacksconfidence 5y ago

Replace jew with 'israeli' in every occurance. Who's fault is it that israel intentionally tried to muddy the water and make the word confusing? I don't see any anti-semitism here. I see here concern that israel does not care about the humanity of their neighbors.

wonderwonder 5y ago
He said Jew, not Israeli. He is intentional in the use as the entire article is about Jews and Israel. Also the person in question is not an idiot, he is a mature adult smart enough to work in stem at Google. Your argument essentially absolves any anti semitic statements / actions by blaming the Jews for it. This is exactly the definition of anti-semitism, and now I am speaking about your words, not his.
- lacksconfidence 5y ago
  I'm being as clear as i can, when I read the document I don't see anything about "the jewish race". What i see is commentary on the jewish nation of israel. I can only blame israel for bluring that distinction as much as possible.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    No need to clarify, I very much understand what you see. The fact that that is what you see is the problem.
    - lacksconfidence 5y ago
      Honestly, I have no clue what you are trying to say. Clearly we have different definitions of anti-semitism? To me anti-semitism is a form of racism. By definition being opposed to the political actions of a nation is not racism. It could have underlying racist motives, but you cannot ascribe those from the position that a nation state is doing inappropriate things.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  questioning the definition of anti semitism is anti semitic?
- mikewarot 5y ago
  >He is intentional in the use as the entire article is about Jews and Israel. Determining intent from a single page of text is about as solvable as the halting problem.
throwusawayus 5y ago
I'm Jewish, and I personally found the post to be offensive and anti-semitic. Israel is not my "homeland". I've never been to Israel, let alone lived there. My parents have never been to Israel. You'd have to go back over 2000 years to find an ancestor of mine who lived in Israel. I have no connection whatsoever with the actions of the Israeli government. So if you attribute their actions to me, simply because I am Jewish, that is by definition racist and anti-semitic. Imagine if the non-black head of diversity at a major US corporation wrote a post titled "If I were Black", directly tying the actions of modern-day African governments to all African Americans. Or a post titled "If I were Catholic" doing the same thing to all US Catholics based on actions of the Vatican or even just the Pope. This sort of thing happened in the US decades ago and was acceptable then, but is not even remotely acceptable now, nor was it acceptable when this post was written.
- lacksconfidence 5y ago
  Thanks for the commentary, it's a useful perspective. Perhaps it depends on many things, but i feel like this post is not attributing these actions to you, in any way. My reading of the actual actions being criticised in that there is no way the author could mean anything other than the jewish state of israel. Working backwards from there, it's clear to me that any reference to jew is simply because AIPAC and western media in general have spent the last ~50 years blurring the discourse to the point where Jew ~= Israeli.
  - throwusawayus 5y ago
    Among other blatantly offensive things, he directly said "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." Certainly sounds to me like he's attributing these actions to me and all other Jewish people. Stop blaming "the media". If the head of diversity of one of the largest corporations in the world doesn't understand the difference between a Jewish person and an Israeli, they are not qualified for their position.
    - vidarh 5y ago
balls187 5y ago
That is an absurd argument. Replace "Jew" with "Krogan..." The blog post took aim at Jewish people, not the policies of Israeli government. Even it's title "If I were a Jew" is problematic. https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Krogan https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Krogan

bagacrap 5y ago

the group that called him out on Twitter are clearly Zionists, though, not Jews who want nothing to do with Israel. I think a Jew who never thinks about Israel is likely to read that essay and think it doesn't apply to them. If someone wrote "man, people in Colorado like to go on shooting rampages" I would think to myself, "yeah, that's right, we should not sell ar15s to folks; also, what is it about this place that affects mental health?" I would not take offense just because I happen to live there.

wonderwonder 5y ago
He called out Jews, not Israelis. Can you think of any other race that is expected to ignore comments that specifically insults their race and think "doesn't apply to me".

hirundo 5y ago

The first sentence sounds anti-semitic to me. The second does not. It's well worth being concerned about ones insensitivity to suffering in the conduct of self-defense. It may be particularly important if you feel that defense is entirely righteous. If hurting anyone for any reason does not provoke self-reflection, something is wrong. That's completely consistent with doing what is necessary to defend your loved ones, including violence.

csa 5y ago

> How is that anything except Anti-Semitic? As you frame it, there is no other way to interpret his words (found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...). If one takes a charitable read of his words, it might be less damning (although definitely questionable in terms of style): 1. It’s clear in the post that he’s speaking about Israeli Jews. While even Israeli Jews are not monolithic, and speaking of them like they are is suspect, he could have been clearer by using “Israeli Jew” rather than “Jew” in this post. 2. Furthermore, it seems more like he is speaking about “Israeli Jews” both in terms of being an actual Israeli Jew as well as a term used to represent the Israeli government. 3. He use the wrong pronouns. He used I/me when we/us would have been more standard when speaking of the acts of a nation state (esp. a democratic one). Even this creates problems since it would paint Israeli Jews as being monolithic in their thoughts (my experience is that they very very much are not monolithic). That said, with a charitable read, the stylistic use of I/me is definitely more powerful and more personal, and it probably provided the effect the author wanted of making the violence feel personal. As an editor, I would have given this stylistic choice a firm veto, but try explaining that to a young person who is finding their voice and is discovering the amount of violence towards various peoples that is occurring around the world. TL;DR - Another way of interpreting the post is that a young kid trying to find a powerful voice made some very suspect stylistic choices when trying to write about the government of Israel. Thanks to ‘andrewla for finding the original post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27381980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27381980

stickfigure 5y ago
I find the whole thing offensive in concept, even if he had used "Israeli" instead of "Jew". If some white dude wrote "If I was a Black, I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Blacks have endured and the insatiable appetite for crime that permeates inner cities", we would rightly castigate him as a virulent racist. It also wouldn't matter if you replaced "Black" with African, or Senegalese, or Mexican, or any other nationality. You aren't that thing, you don't have the experiences of that culture, you don't get to write from that perspective.