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Personally, my wish for 4.x backward incompatible changes is simply to separate the core language from today’s huge stdlib. A small, lean stdlib with pip and ba

Personally, my wish for 4.x backward incompatible changes is simply to separate the core language from today’s huge stdlib. A small, lean stdlib with pip and basic text, numbers and io support would make for a smaller and more easily distributable package. Pip install kitchen-sink would reinstall the old stdlib so no problem for those who depend on it. Anaconda and other distros would bundle it. Debian already splits out the stdlib and makes a mess of it so would be better suited there, too.

musingsole 5y ago
> A small, lean stdlib with pip and basic text, numbers and io support would make for a smaller and more easily distributable package For what environments is the size of Python's stdlib actually an issue? Certainly in embedded with MicroPython. But for anything else (even micro-containers), I don't see how the extra MBs can be meaningful.
- mamcx 5y ago
  I think the actual benefits is nor fit in little ram, but for make easier to mantaing and improve things. In Rust the sodlib is very small, but it have slowed to emerge great idioms. And instead of putting in the standard lib all the code of X popular library of today, them put the TRAITS/bare support that allow anyone to interop and implement better versions of it. Is pretty clever way to do things, actually.
- pletnes 5y ago
  Repeated docker builds. Other build automation. Mobile/apps. Raspberry pis. For teaching, less overhead is better.
pansa2 5y ago
> A small, lean stdlib If you take that approach, where libraries must rely on third-party packages even for fundamental operations, how do you avoid the JavaScript/Rust situation where every application requires a huge number of (transitive) dependencies?
- pletnes 5y ago
  I imagine today’s stdlib converted to a pip installable package. The python.org installer would still come with it. Only software engineering types would use the stripped down version actively I’d think. Kind of like miniconda vs anaconda today.

musingsole 5y ago

> A small, lean stdlib with pip and basic text, numbers and io support would make for a smaller and more easily distributable package For what environments is the size of Python's stdlib actually an issue? Certainly in embedded with MicroPython. But for anything else (even micro-containers), I don't see how the extra MBs can be meaningful.

mamcx 5y ago
I think the actual benefits is nor fit in little ram, but for make easier to mantaing and improve things. In Rust the sodlib is very small, but it have slowed to emerge great idioms. And instead of putting in the standard lib all the code of X popular library of today, them put the TRAITS/bare support that allow anyone to interop and implement better versions of it. Is pretty clever way to do things, actually.
pletnes 5y ago
Repeated docker builds. Other build automation. Mobile/apps. Raspberry pis. For teaching, less overhead is better.

pansa2 5y ago

> A small, lean stdlib If you take that approach, where libraries must rely on third-party packages even for fundamental operations, how do you avoid the JavaScript/Rust situation where every application requires a huge number of (transitive) dependencies?

pletnes 5y ago
I imagine today’s stdlib converted to a pip installable package. The python.org installer would still come with it. Only software engineering types would use the stripped down version actively I’d think. Kind of like miniconda vs anaconda today.