4 ms·

I like how technology is making crime harder to get away with. CCTV has probably lead to convictions in 100,000's of cases over its lifetime and deterred many m

I like how technology is making crime harder to get away with. CCTV has probably lead to convictions in 100,000's of cases over its lifetime and deterred many more. I can't think of many negative outcomes to society from CCTV systems. My hope is that AirTags will make petty theft harder to get away with too.

jgalt212 5y ago
You mean IRL crime, cybercrime is easier than ever to pull off.
AlexandrB 5y ago
CCTV only deters blue collar crime. White collar crime still has no equivalent deterrent. In a sense, CCTV helps us punish those who are already desperate. While not necessarily a negative in the abstract, in concrete terms one has to wonder why there's no CCTV cameras in executive offices, no screen recordings of everything they do on their computer.
- nucleogenesis 5y ago
  Thank you for making this very important point.
- mediascreen 5y ago
  Maybe not exactly the same thing, but there are tax auditors, tax audits, access logging (for some administrative systems), "know your customer" bank regulations and public insider registries for example.
  - becquerel 5y ago
    But unfortunately, regulations only bind the weak: https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- klyrs 5y ago
  If we imprison the lower class, we can get them to work for free. There's no downside for the upper class. Cracking down on white collar crime is rife with downsides for the upper class, so we defund the IRS, EPA, etc
- stretchwithme 5y ago
  Desperation is just one reason people commit crimes. Such as wanting what other people have. Such as vengeance. If only we had to worry about people who were desperate, paying them off would actually work.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  Just because something doesn't solve all problems doesn't mean it's still not incredibly useful for the problems it does solve. And plenty of crimes aren't out of class-based "desperation" at all -- e.g. rape or stalking. So I'm not sure why you're acting like there's some intentional effort to target the lower class but not upper class. The US goes after white collar crime heavily as well -- you'll find out quickly if you try to embezzle funds from your employer. Obviously, CCTV is effective against physical crimes. White-collar tends to be caught with digital records like bank reporting, e-mails and texts, and so on. So I don't know what you mean when you say white collar crime has no equivalent deterrent. In a nutshell, databases are the equivalent.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> I can't think of many negative outcomes to society from CCTV systems. Uyghurs being arrested and sent to concentration camps after (western) facial recognition software singled them out from CCTV camera footage.
handrous 5y ago
Cops around here (a US city) routinely opt not to investigate property crime well into the five-figures, even when there's extensive video & other evidence. Like, they don't even give it a cursory attempt. I'm not sure adding more cameras will help.
- twiddling 5y ago
  Seattle? This has been a big problem. Even if you have video evidence, SPD, and the city attorney is not bothering. One cop told a buddy "You've got insurance for a reason..."
  - handrous 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure it's most (US, at least) cities, really. It's like if it's not hassling poor people or writing traffic tickets (the two things I actually see them do, regularly) the cops just don't care, at all. Catching speeders and driving off homeless people. That's about it.
  - irrational 5y ago
    I’ve always wondered if they or one of their friends/family get robbed, would they actually investigate it? I’m just wondering to what extent their hypocrisy extends.
- only_as_i_fall 5y ago
  In my experience a lot of cops signed up for guns blazing action movie shit and are very reluctant to do their real job, which is mostly paperwork.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Remember that what is considered criminal can change over time and not always in a good direction. A lot of people escape persecution from dictatorships by committing "crimes" and only get away with it because the system isn't perfect. China is a good example of nazi-like concentration camps but with modern technology.
stevenicr 5y ago
I do not see this the same at all. Around my small city / burbs - crime is still rampant with cams everywhere. Many criminals now don hats/hoodies / masks.. but many do not. I've got video or a dozen different people breaking into cars in the neighborhood - cops don't care, DA ain't gonna do nothing if they are caught - now I know some of the thieves in the area on sight, but can't do anything to them. There are negative outcomes - they just aren't not in the news as much as they could be. When people are less free and feel like everything they do is being recorded, they act less free. Chilling effects ripple over the years and people forget when being non-chilled was like.
Matheus28 5y ago
AirTags aren't meant to recover stolen items, since they make noise to indicate they're not around their owner. The thief also gets a notification on their phone that they're carrying an unknown airtag with them
spoonjim 5y ago
100'000's of cases of drug overdose deaths are at the direct hands of Purdue Pharmaceuticals and the Sackler family. Let's hope CCTV finds a way to punish them too. Oh wait...

jgalt212 5y ago

You mean IRL crime, cybercrime is easier than ever to pull off.

AlexandrB 5y ago

CCTV only deters blue collar crime. White collar crime still has no equivalent deterrent. In a sense, CCTV helps us punish those who are already desperate. While not necessarily a negative in the abstract, in concrete terms one has to wonder why there's no CCTV cameras in executive offices, no screen recordings of everything they do on their computer.

nucleogenesis 5y ago
Thank you for making this very important point.
mediascreen 5y ago
Maybe not exactly the same thing, but there are tax auditors, tax audits, access logging (for some administrative systems), "know your customer" bank regulations and public insider registries for example.
- becquerel 5y ago
  But unfortunately, regulations only bind the weak: https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
klyrs 5y ago
If we imprison the lower class, we can get them to work for free. There's no downside for the upper class. Cracking down on white collar crime is rife with downsides for the upper class, so we defund the IRS, EPA, etc
stretchwithme 5y ago
Desperation is just one reason people commit crimes. Such as wanting what other people have. Such as vengeance. If only we had to worry about people who were desperate, paying them off would actually work.
crazygringo 5y ago
Just because something doesn't solve all problems doesn't mean it's still not incredibly useful for the problems it does solve. And plenty of crimes aren't out of class-based "desperation" at all -- e.g. rape or stalking. So I'm not sure why you're acting like there's some intentional effort to target the lower class but not upper class. The US goes after white collar crime heavily as well -- you'll find out quickly if you try to embezzle funds from your employer. Obviously, CCTV is effective against physical crimes. White-collar tends to be caught with digital records like bank reporting, e-mails and texts, and so on. So I don't know what you mean when you say white collar crime has no equivalent deterrent. In a nutshell, databases are the equivalent.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

> I can't think of many negative outcomes to society from CCTV systems. Uyghurs being arrested and sent to concentration camps after (western) facial recognition software singled them out from CCTV camera footage.

handrous 5y ago

Cops around here (a US city) routinely opt not to investigate property crime well into the five-figures, even when there's extensive video & other evidence. Like, they don't even give it a cursory attempt. I'm not sure adding more cameras will help.

twiddling 5y ago
Seattle? This has been a big problem. Even if you have video evidence, SPD, and the city attorney is not bothering. One cop told a buddy "You've got insurance for a reason..."
- handrous 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure it's most (US, at least) cities, really. It's like if it's not hassling poor people or writing traffic tickets (the two things I actually see them do, regularly) the cops just don't care, at all. Catching speeders and driving off homeless people. That's about it.
- irrational 5y ago
  I’ve always wondered if they or one of their friends/family get robbed, would they actually investigate it? I’m just wondering to what extent their hypocrisy extends.
only_as_i_fall 5y ago
In my experience a lot of cops signed up for guns blazing action movie shit and are very reluctant to do their real job, which is mostly paperwork.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Remember that what is considered criminal can change over time and not always in a good direction. A lot of people escape persecution from dictatorships by committing "crimes" and only get away with it because the system isn't perfect. China is a good example of nazi-like concentration camps but with modern technology.

stevenicr 5y ago

I do not see this the same at all. Around my small city / burbs - crime is still rampant with cams everywhere. Many criminals now don hats/hoodies / masks.. but many do not. I've got video or a dozen different people breaking into cars in the neighborhood - cops don't care, DA ain't gonna do nothing if they are caught - now I know some of the thieves in the area on sight, but can't do anything to them. There are negative outcomes - they just aren't not in the news as much as they could be. When people are less free and feel like everything they do is being recorded, they act less free. Chilling effects ripple over the years and people forget when being non-chilled was like.

Matheus28 5y ago

AirTags aren't meant to recover stolen items, since they make noise to indicate they're not around their owner. The thief also gets a notification on their phone that they're carrying an unknown airtag with them

spoonjim 5y ago

100'000's of cases of drug overdose deaths are at the direct hands of Purdue Pharmaceuticals and the Sackler family. Let's hope CCTV finds a way to punish them too. Oh wait...