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> I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. Yeah, that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to dis

> I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. Yeah, that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. Except of course for most of us who don't have money so we get paid shitty wages for making other people's inconveniences disappear. If such jobs were the highest paid, that would be less of a problem of course. But the highest paid jobs under capitalism are the least useful to society at large because they don't produce anything (CEOs, managers, financial/legal advisors, marketers, etc). > I’m better doing some things than others. That makes sense. However some tasks such as cleaning are not skilled labor. Yes it requires (some) learning, but by the second time you've cleaned a toilet you pretty much know how to do it for the rest of your life. Cleaning a single toilet takes about 5 minutes and is not much effort (contrary to doing that for a living)That makes sense. However some tasks such as cleaning are not skilled labor. Yes it requires (some) learning, but by the second time you've cleaned a toilet you pretty much know how to do it for the rest of your life. Cleaning a single toilet takes about 5 minutes and is not much effort (contrary to doing that for a living). Have you considered why you're so reluctant to do it? > I’ve lived in communities (...) my toilet We're probably not living in the same kinds of communities then if you've got a personal toilet. In the communities i've resided in everybody's got their personal room but everything else is communal.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Except of course for most of us who don't have money so we get paid shitty wages for making other people's inconveniences disappear. If such jobs were the highest paid, that would be less of a problem of course. But the highest paid jobs under capitalism are the least useful to society at large because they don't produce anything (CEOs, managers, financial/legal advisors, marketers, etc). This might be able to be rectified under the current system by giving money to the lowest paid, so that they can go to school and learn a trade which they find has a more acceptable price:undesirability ratio. Ideally, everyone will have the option to not have to do tasks like cleaning toilets, and hence everyone will have to do it themselves or pay a lot to get someone else to do it.
muttled 5y ago
>Have you considered why you're so reluctant to do it? It's funny, I had a conversation with a roommate that went something like I said I hated dishes, and that I'd rather be outside in the cold, under the car lifted on jackstands, draining the oil and replacing it and servicing the oil filter, coming back in and cleaning up. For both our cars. And my roommate seemed shocked. It seemed like such a bigger task to them than just quickly cleaning the dishes and throwing them in a rack to dry. But I just hate doing the dishes. And I don't mind changing the oil in the car.
prepend 5y ago
> that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. I disagree, it’s what is awesome about our society. It’s a feature, not a bug. I’ve gotten all the character I’ll get from cleaning toilets and I’m happy that someone else is willing to do it for me. There’s no way toilet cleaner will be a high paying job because the skill set is so low. As with most manual labor. Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages. I understand how to clean a toilet and the time involved. I choose not to do it. I won’t make me a better person to do it. I have considered why I’m reluctant and understand pretty completely. I grok why I don’t want to clean toilets. I’m comfortable with my understanding in this area. It’s also ok that we value these experiences differently. I don’t have to convince you to pay someone to clean your toilet. I just have to convince you to continue letting me, and others, pay for toilet cleaning.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages. High supply relative to demand or low demand relative to supply means low wages. It is possible (and very real in many areas) that there are low numbers of people willing to clean toilets in a given area compared to the demand. It could be due to government assistance providing them enough such that they do not need to clean toilets to meet their needs. It could be better job opportunities opening up nearby such as higher paying factory work. It could be that they move away from the area due to higher real estate prices. There are myriad causes for a low skill task to have few willing suppliers for the labor to perform that task.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> Except of course for most of us who don't have money so we get paid shitty wages for making other people's inconveniences disappear. If such jobs were the highest paid, that would be less of a problem of course. But the highest paid jobs under capitalism are the least useful to society at large because they don't produce anything (CEOs, managers, financial/legal advisors, marketers, etc). This might be able to be rectified under the current system by giving money to the lowest paid, so that they can go to school and learn a trade which they find has a more acceptable price:undesirability ratio. Ideally, everyone will have the option to not have to do tasks like cleaning toilets, and hence everyone will have to do it themselves or pay a lot to get someone else to do it.

muttled 5y ago

>Have you considered why you're so reluctant to do it? It's funny, I had a conversation with a roommate that went something like I said I hated dishes, and that I'd rather be outside in the cold, under the car lifted on jackstands, draining the oil and replacing it and servicing the oil filter, coming back in and cleaning up. For both our cars. And my roommate seemed shocked. It seemed like such a bigger task to them than just quickly cleaning the dishes and throwing them in a rack to dry. But I just hate doing the dishes. And I don't mind changing the oil in the car.

prepend 5y ago

> that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. I disagree, it’s what is awesome about our society. It’s a feature, not a bug. I’ve gotten all the character I’ll get from cleaning toilets and I’m happy that someone else is willing to do it for me. There’s no way toilet cleaner will be a high paying job because the skill set is so low. As with most manual labor. Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages. I understand how to clean a toilet and the time involved. I choose not to do it. I won’t make me a better person to do it. I have considered why I’m reluctant and understand pretty completely. I grok why I don’t want to clean toilets. I’m comfortable with my understanding in this area. It’s also ok that we value these experiences differently. I don’t have to convince you to pay someone to clean your toilet. I just have to convince you to continue letting me, and others, pay for toilet cleaning.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages. High supply relative to demand or low demand relative to supply means low wages. It is possible (and very real in many areas) that there are low numbers of people willing to clean toilets in a given area compared to the demand. It could be due to government assistance providing them enough such that they do not need to clean toilets to meet their needs. It could be better job opportunities opening up nearby such as higher paying factory work. It could be that they move away from the area due to higher real estate prices. There are myriad causes for a low skill task to have few willing suppliers for the labor to perform that task.