5 ms·

The only thing that really works with cryptocurrencies and adjacent technologies is to use them for pyramid schemes and using them for illegal payments like buy

by simias 5y ago

The only thing that really works with cryptocurrencies and adjacent technologies is to use them for pyramid schemes and using them for illegal payments like buying things on the darknet or paying ransomware. The rest is just empty promises and short term hype. NFT is just the last in a long series. Before that we had the Lightning network that would revolutionize payments and make cryptocurrencies actually usable, ICOs that would revolutionize startup founding etc... I wonder how long the cryptocurrency world will manage to maintain this facade of being a miracle tech in order to justify the insane amount of money poured into it, while at the same time continuously failing to deliver on everything.

didericis 5y ago
Cryptocurrencies have also been used as a way to escape hyperinflation and retain savings despite a coercive and highly restrictive government, eg Venezuela. When a system becomes corrupt and dysfunctional and normal transactions and savings become ineffective or illegal, cryptocurrencies have proven themselves as a viable means of escape. The value of that is hard to understate. I agree that a lot of other applications are overhyped, and that there is a lot of bloat and excess in the crypto space. I think their core use case and value is in providing an extremely difficult to block form of value storage despite restrictive and irresponsible governments. The value of that depends on how restrictive and irresponsible your government is being.
- thatguyagain 5y ago
  Any sources on how many Venezuelans actually moved their money into crypto?
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Usually this is where someone from Venezuela comes along and tells us that this is a tiny minority, and most people want US Dollars because they can actually use those.
    - aga98mtl 5y ago
      The government controls the traditional US Dollars remittance systems. They can force absurdly bad exchange rates. Crypto shines where the government is messing with banking and currencies.
      - FranchuFranchu 5y ago
        I'm from Argentina, people who want to trade US dollars usually do it on illegal unofficial markets with better rates. I think it's likely that it's the same in Venezuela.
      - bhandziuk 5y ago
        > Crypto shines where the government is messing with banking and currencies but isn't any cryptocurrency still directly tied to some fiat currency? Unless everyone uses crypto then at some point it gets exchanged for dollars at which point the low value of the dollar in a place like Venezuela is realized and you're stuck in the same situation but with more hassle.
      - Nursie 5y ago
        That's nice, but you appear to be bringing up theoretical conditions as a counter to actual observed behaviour. Crypto might well potentially shine under such circumstances, or under your view of what such circumstances might be, but the truth on the ground is apparently different.
        didericis 5y ago
        Cited this article in another response: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research bitcoin adoption in Venezuela is more than theoretical and is being used to send money into the country.
    - ac29 5y ago
      I was under the impression US cash apps like Zelle were far more popular than cryptocurrency: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-11/zelle-has-turned-dollar-starved-venezuela-into-a-cashless-test-lab https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-11/zelle-has...
  - didericis 5y ago
    Volume for p2p bitcoin exchanges in July 2019 was 20million a month: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research
- s-lambert 5y ago
  In cases like Venezuala, what's the long-term goal of holding crpyto though? That the country somehow collapses and is rebuilt with a normally inflationary currency with a less restrictive government? Or is the idea that you build up savings to eventually leave the country? It doesn't really seem like a long-term solution or one that'd help more than a small amount of people.
  - HeadsUpHigh 5y ago
    The idea is to not have your money lose half its value on a daily basis. Or to have relatives send you money from abroad. There doesn't need to be an endgame, it just fulfils a need of these people.

by simias 5y ago

didericis 5y ago

Cryptocurrencies have also been used as a way to escape hyperinflation and retain savings despite a coercive and highly restrictive government, eg Venezuela. When a system becomes corrupt and dysfunctional and normal transactions and savings become ineffective or illegal, cryptocurrencies have proven themselves as a viable means of escape. The value of that is hard to understate. I agree that a lot of other applications are overhyped, and that there is a lot of bloat and excess in the crypto space. I think their core use case and value is in providing an extremely difficult to block form of value storage despite restrictive and irresponsible governments. The value of that depends on how restrictive and irresponsible your government is being.

thatguyagain 5y ago
Any sources on how many Venezuelans actually moved their money into crypto?
- Nursie 5y ago
  Usually this is where someone from Venezuela comes along and tells us that this is a tiny minority, and most people want US Dollars because they can actually use those.
  - aga98mtl 5y ago
    The government controls the traditional US Dollars remittance systems. They can force absurdly bad exchange rates. Crypto shines where the government is messing with banking and currencies.
    - FranchuFranchu 5y ago
      I'm from Argentina, people who want to trade US dollars usually do it on illegal unofficial markets with better rates. I think it's likely that it's the same in Venezuela.
    - bhandziuk 5y ago
      > Crypto shines where the government is messing with banking and currencies but isn't any cryptocurrency still directly tied to some fiat currency? Unless everyone uses crypto then at some point it gets exchanged for dollars at which point the low value of the dollar in a place like Venezuela is realized and you're stuck in the same situation but with more hassle.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      That's nice, but you appear to be bringing up theoretical conditions as a counter to actual observed behaviour. Crypto might well potentially shine under such circumstances, or under your view of what such circumstances might be, but the truth on the ground is apparently different.
      - didericis 5y ago
        Cited this article in another response: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research bitcoin adoption in Venezuela is more than theoretical and is being used to send money into the country.
  - ac29 5y ago
    I was under the impression US cash apps like Zelle were far more popular than cryptocurrency: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-11/zelle-has-turned-dollar-starved-venezuela-into-a-cashless-test-lab https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-11-11/zelle-has...
- didericis 5y ago
  Volume for p2p bitcoin exchanges in July 2019 was 20million a month: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-adoption-venezuela-research
s-lambert 5y ago
In cases like Venezuala, what's the long-term goal of holding crpyto though? That the country somehow collapses and is rebuilt with a normally inflationary currency with a less restrictive government? Or is the idea that you build up savings to eventually leave the country? It doesn't really seem like a long-term solution or one that'd help more than a small amount of people.
- HeadsUpHigh 5y ago
  The idea is to not have your money lose half its value on a daily basis. Or to have relatives send you money from abroad. There doesn't need to be an endgame, it just fulfils a need of these people.