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I had a bad feeling the comments section would be filled with dorky, off-base rerun complaints and whining about UX and the "oh it's all mobile design" tropes t

by rtpg 5y ago

I had a bad feeling the comments section would be filled with dorky, off-base rerun complaints and whining about UX and the "oh it's all mobile design" tropes that has barely been true for years. Imagine anyone working on GNOME stuff reading this! There have been leaps and strides in making Gnome stuff stable and work out of the box. I remember using Linux 5 or so years ago, and if I wanted to do GUI configuration of X/Y/Z, almost all the time it was some random app that someone just uploads to sourcefourge, with random likelihood of working. Now I have basically all the coverage I need just from out of the box Gnome stuff (I'd love for pavu-control to get brought in but...) So much stuff just works. Someone needs to do an indiegogo about the file picker, but it _also_ basically works, and the design of gnome stuff in general has transitioned well to widescreen monitors etc. Not to mention insanely neat stuff like the Gnome Builder [0], even if that doesn't affect my day-to-day. Y'all are ungrateful, and really discounting how well stuff works now compared to how it used to (Yes, even in Gnome 2!). Gnome's been great to me [0]: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Builder https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Builder

brnt 5y ago
I do not recognize any of the difficulties you mention. I was a Gnome 2 user since 2.4, 2.6, right up until the end. Around 2.10 things stabilized, wel before 2010. I loved it, and I still like Gnome 2's fork. I tried to like 3, but unfortunately I don't see how the mobile-criticism isn't valid, or how it made things easier or better. I wasn't and am not someone who tweaks and tunes, but Gnome 3 was too much simplification, for me. I can imagine it's tough to read if you're a Gnome committer, but I would hope the points raised are seen (although evidence seems to indicate it isn't), not the fact that there is criticism. The way I see it, Gnome now is a bit of an anti-gui: it seems to be in retreat of actually providing GUI for doing things. This may be what some people want, mobile guis are the same (and I protest that too), but whereas before I had the impression Gnome was big enough to suit different sorts, now it seems those who don't like the narrower goal Gnome has set for itself just need to move on. And I have, in a great reversal of history, KDE actually feels like the modern Gnome 2 that never was (I disliked KDE 3 and 4 with a passion). I don't think modern Gnome is the right DE to be the default in nearly every distro, because it has become so opinionated. There are other DEs that to me seem better suited to that role. Then again, I couldn't tell you why Android-iOS (I barely see any difference) is what it is, so maybe I'm just old, different or some sort of UI-minority.
- swiley 5y ago
  >Then again, I couldn't tell you why Android-iOS (I barely see any difference) is what it is Because you're trying to analyze the technology rather than the social/power structure wielding it.
Barrin92 5y ago
For what it's worth as a person who just uses Linux as a development platform and does not want to tinker and wants something that works out of the box and feels as polished as Windows or macos, gnome by far comes closest and I'm very happy with it. These days I can just run the latest Fedora release and it simply works.
christophilus 5y ago
Gnome is great. It’s easily m favorite desktop environment (including vs OSX and Windows). It works. It is consistent (unlike most other Linux DEs). Its UI gets out of my way. Its keyboard-driven workflow is quite nice. I’m a fan. I’m running Fedora 34, and my only complaint is the clean-start memory usage of which Gnome is a big part, but unnecessary Fedora services also take their fair share.
- subsection1h 5y ago
  > Its UI gets out of my way. If you want the UI to get out of your way, why are you using a desktop environment instead of just a window manager?
  - Grimm665 5y ago
    I've been through this back and forth, the devil is in the details. I'm sure with enough customizations and configuration, a tiling window manager can do all of the following, but I just don't have the time or energy anymore, and Gnome does most of these well enough that it doesn't matter. - Works well with 1, 2 or 3 screens as I hop around between desk, laptop, and home office - Seemlessly allows me to share screen with Zoom, Teams, and Discord. - Easily allows me to select microphone and speakers on the fly, and connect and disconnect bluetooth headphones. - Modify network settings easily and quickly as I hop between wired and wireless networks. I've found the best compromise to be Gnome with the MaterialShell, which gives me back the tiling I need without removing the ease-of-use from a full desktop environment. https://github.com/material-shell/material-shell https://github.com/material-shell/material-shell
  - anoncake 5y ago
    You always use a desktop environment, either a premade one or one you assemble yourself starting with a window manager.
  - rtpg 5y ago
    I think this is a legitimate question! Saying you want the UI to get out of the way _can_ mean that you still want the DE for the 10% of the time you need it, but for the 90% of the time you don't, you want it to be unobtrusive. Classic example for me is how Mac will fuse the top bar and a maximized app's toolbar. I want the top bar sometimes! But I like it not being a permanent fixture if the app I'm using needs it. A lot of people want the DE for when they need it, and want it to not be in the way when they don't. That's what a lot of people mean by that IMO.

by rtpg 5y ago

brnt 5y ago

I do not recognize any of the difficulties you mention. I was a Gnome 2 user since 2.4, 2.6, right up until the end. Around 2.10 things stabilized, wel before 2010. I loved it, and I still like Gnome 2's fork. I tried to like 3, but unfortunately I don't see how the mobile-criticism isn't valid, or how it made things easier or better. I wasn't and am not someone who tweaks and tunes, but Gnome 3 was too much simplification, for me. I can imagine it's tough to read if you're a Gnome committer, but I would hope the points raised are seen (although evidence seems to indicate it isn't), not the fact that there is criticism. The way I see it, Gnome now is a bit of an anti-gui: it seems to be in retreat of actually providing GUI for doing things. This may be what some people want, mobile guis are the same (and I protest that too), but whereas before I had the impression Gnome was big enough to suit different sorts, now it seems those who don't like the narrower goal Gnome has set for itself just need to move on. And I have, in a great reversal of history, KDE actually feels like the modern Gnome 2 that never was (I disliked KDE 3 and 4 with a passion). I don't think modern Gnome is the right DE to be the default in nearly every distro, because it has become so opinionated. There are other DEs that to me seem better suited to that role. Then again, I couldn't tell you why Android-iOS (I barely see any difference) is what it is, so maybe I'm just old, different or some sort of UI-minority.

swiley 5y ago
>Then again, I couldn't tell you why Android-iOS (I barely see any difference) is what it is Because you're trying to analyze the technology rather than the social/power structure wielding it.

Barrin92 5y ago

For what it's worth as a person who just uses Linux as a development platform and does not want to tinker and wants something that works out of the box and feels as polished as Windows or macos, gnome by far comes closest and I'm very happy with it. These days I can just run the latest Fedora release and it simply works.

christophilus 5y ago

Gnome is great. It’s easily m favorite desktop environment (including vs OSX and Windows). It works. It is consistent (unlike most other Linux DEs). Its UI gets out of my way. Its keyboard-driven workflow is quite nice. I’m a fan. I’m running Fedora 34, and my only complaint is the clean-start memory usage of which Gnome is a big part, but unnecessary Fedora services also take their fair share.

subsection1h 5y ago
> Its UI gets out of my way. If you want the UI to get out of your way, why are you using a desktop environment instead of just a window manager?
- Grimm665 5y ago
  I've been through this back and forth, the devil is in the details. I'm sure with enough customizations and configuration, a tiling window manager can do all of the following, but I just don't have the time or energy anymore, and Gnome does most of these well enough that it doesn't matter. - Works well with 1, 2 or 3 screens as I hop around between desk, laptop, and home office - Seemlessly allows me to share screen with Zoom, Teams, and Discord. - Easily allows me to select microphone and speakers on the fly, and connect and disconnect bluetooth headphones. - Modify network settings easily and quickly as I hop between wired and wireless networks. I've found the best compromise to be Gnome with the MaterialShell, which gives me back the tiling I need without removing the ease-of-use from a full desktop environment. https://github.com/material-shell/material-shell https://github.com/material-shell/material-shell
- anoncake 5y ago
  You always use a desktop environment, either a premade one or one you assemble yourself starting with a window manager.
- rtpg 5y ago
  I think this is a legitimate question! Saying you want the UI to get out of the way _can_ mean that you still want the DE for the 10% of the time you need it, but for the 90% of the time you don't, you want it to be unobtrusive. Classic example for me is how Mac will fuse the top bar and a maximized app's toolbar. I want the top bar sometimes! But I like it not being a permanent fixture if the app I'm using needs it. A lot of people want the DE for when they need it, and want it to not be in the way when they don't. That's what a lot of people mean by that IMO.