4 ms·

I fully relate to this. Years ago I worked for a Canadian subsidiary of a US company doing work with the US government. On a (illegal in Canada) US government f

by cik 5y ago

I fully relate to this. Years ago I worked for a Canadian subsidiary of a US company doing work with the US government. On a (illegal in Canada) US government form I accurately marked down that my "Protected Origin Class". I am 50% African and 50% Asian, as a Moroccan-Jewish, Israeli. We were audited. The American auditor was flabbergasted by my values on the form. He literally told me that as a (visible, brown) Jew, I couldn't possibly mark those things down. I had to resort to pulling out maps and asking if Morocco was in Africa and Israel was in Asia. He was flummoxed by my refusal to mark down "white" when a) I'm not white, and b) his form offered me the ability to mark down what I am. Pointing out that percentage-wise as Jew, I was less than 0.006% of Canada's population also didn't make me a minority apparently. That was the last time I ever assumed that minority is supposed to mean anything other than the tokenized narrative of the time.

FlyingSaucer 5y ago
Huh, so its not only me. My grandparents came from Libya in the late 1950's, but for some reason the very north of Africa doesn't quite qualify for most people as African "enough" for me to be of African descent. Feels like for many people the benchmark is either skin color or not coming from a traditionally Arab country. A similar thing happens to acquaintances of mine of Tunisian or Algerian descent. I guess the geographical line is somewhere around Mauritania
- treis 5y ago
  Because it's asking about ethnicity not geographic place of birth.
  - FlyingSaucer 5y ago
    English isn't my native tongue so perhaps i'm missing some subtlety, i thought ethnic groups are people who share a common descent? Honestly asking, not trying to nitpick.
    - SauciestGNU 5y ago
      Ethnic groups are a distinct concept from racial groups. Ethnicity has more to do with culture and society versus race, which is largely about appearance and, to an extent, geographical provenance.
    - treis 5y ago
      You're correct. The point is that for NA that common descent is Arab not African. I know that's not completely true but in the context of the crude racial classification system the US uses it is. According to the US government you're white: >White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Arab, Moroccan, or Caucasian. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625219#:~:text=OMB%20requires%20that%20race%20data,report%20more%20than%20one%20race https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625219#:~:....
throwaway743 5y ago
I feel you. Been in similar situations. Cape Verdean father (black skin tone), and a Jewish (she didn't have a bat mitzvah I didn't have a bar mitzvah, we're not religious) and Irish mother produced me, an ethnically ambiguous person with multiple passing complexions. Skin tone is olive-tan, get pretty dark in the summer (if I stay out, but usually indoors working on something), eyes are almond shaped. I've had/get people coming up to me on the street asking questions in Spanish often, Tagalog and a few other South East Asian languages not as frequently, Russian, have Hasidic kids coming up asking me if I'm Jewish so they can try and drag me off to their Winnebago of a mitzvah tank. Once had some guy approach me speaking German with a beer in his hand and after realizing I don't speak German said, "Oh sorry, you look German" (whatever that means) and then I warned him of open container and the precinct up the block. Most assume I'm just a white guy who is either Italian or Jewish (might have to do with being from/living in the Northeast US idk). I don't like talking about my ethnicities because I just don't care, but when it's brought up in the context of someone saying, "black people do this" or "okay white boy", I get offended because to me it's primitive and, excuse my language, retarded. Those things are usually said by those who don't know my ethnic background (not that it should matter), and when I call out the ignorance behind the statements made and that doesn't come across, I explain my ethnic background, which usually results in "what's a cape verdean?" or "what!? You're black too?". And if that doesn't come across, I'll flash a photo of me with my grandmother or father and they stfu. This is going on a tangent, but to your point, I believe that having marked off african/black and caucasian or "two or more races" on my job applications has positively impacted my response rates in the past, but has also lead to negative results post-interview once seeing me and not believing that I am in fact Cape Verdean. I dont have empirical evidence, but having the technical capabilities and drive required for the jobs, after taking and passing test after test with well known organizations, having interviewers emphasize "inclusion and diversity", and having many interviews that left me feeling "wow that went awesome. Totally got this" (I'm more of a realist. If it sucked, it sucked), only to get a rejection, I've come to the assumption that there's got to be at least some percentage of rejections where the potential employer thought "he's lying... he doesn't look black". The whole corporate "inclusion/diversity" thing here in the states is a fucking joke. My older brother, who's darker and a little less ethnically ambiguous, has commented on his experiences, which are relatable to a degree, saying he "was always too light for the blacks, and too dark for the whites"

by cik 5y ago

FlyingSaucer 5y ago

Huh, so its not only me. My grandparents came from Libya in the late 1950's, but for some reason the very north of Africa doesn't quite qualify for most people as African "enough" for me to be of African descent. Feels like for many people the benchmark is either skin color or not coming from a traditionally Arab country. A similar thing happens to acquaintances of mine of Tunisian or Algerian descent. I guess the geographical line is somewhere around Mauritania

treis 5y ago
Because it's asking about ethnicity not geographic place of birth.
- FlyingSaucer 5y ago
  English isn't my native tongue so perhaps i'm missing some subtlety, i thought ethnic groups are people who share a common descent? Honestly asking, not trying to nitpick.
  - SauciestGNU 5y ago
    Ethnic groups are a distinct concept from racial groups. Ethnicity has more to do with culture and society versus race, which is largely about appearance and, to an extent, geographical provenance.
  - treis 5y ago
    You're correct. The point is that for NA that common descent is Arab not African. I know that's not completely true but in the context of the crude racial classification system the US uses it is. According to the US government you're white: >White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Arab, Moroccan, or Caucasian. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625219#:~:text=OMB%20requires%20that%20race%20data,report%20more%20than%20one%20race https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625219#:~:....

throwaway743 5y ago

I feel you. Been in similar situations. Cape Verdean father (black skin tone), and a Jewish (she didn't have a bat mitzvah I didn't have a bar mitzvah, we're not religious) and Irish mother produced me, an ethnically ambiguous person with multiple passing complexions. Skin tone is olive-tan, get pretty dark in the summer (if I stay out, but usually indoors working on something), eyes are almond shaped. I've had/get people coming up to me on the street asking questions in Spanish often, Tagalog and a few other South East Asian languages not as frequently, Russian, have Hasidic kids coming up asking me if I'm Jewish so they can try and drag me off to their Winnebago of a mitzvah tank. Once had some guy approach me speaking German with a beer in his hand and after realizing I don't speak German said, "Oh sorry, you look German" (whatever that means) and then I warned him of open container and the precinct up the block. Most assume I'm just a white guy who is either Italian or Jewish (might have to do with being from/living in the Northeast US idk). I don't like talking about my ethnicities because I just don't care, but when it's brought up in the context of someone saying, "black people do this" or "okay white boy", I get offended because to me it's primitive and, excuse my language, retarded. Those things are usually said by those who don't know my ethnic background (not that it should matter), and when I call out the ignorance behind the statements made and that doesn't come across, I explain my ethnic background, which usually results in "what's a cape verdean?" or "what!? You're black too?". And if that doesn't come across, I'll flash a photo of me with my grandmother or father and they stfu. This is going on a tangent, but to your point, I believe that having marked off african/black and caucasian or "two or more races" on my job applications has positively impacted my response rates in the past, but has also lead to negative results post-interview once seeing me and not believing that I am in fact Cape Verdean. I dont have empirical evidence, but having the technical capabilities and drive required for the jobs, after taking and passing test after test with well known organizations, having interviewers emphasize "inclusion and diversity", and having many interviews that left me feeling "wow that went awesome. Totally got this" (I'm more of a realist. If it sucked, it sucked), only to get a rejection, I've come to the assumption that there's got to be at least some percentage of rejections where the potential employer thought "he's lying... he doesn't look black". The whole corporate "inclusion/diversity" thing here in the states is a fucking joke. My older brother, who's darker and a little less ethnically ambiguous, has commented on his experiences, which are relatable to a degree, saying he "was always too light for the blacks, and too dark for the whites"