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Acknowledgement is lip service, especially decades after the fact. If they provide significant compensation, then yes. There is hope for better days for China t

Acknowledgement is lip service, especially decades after the fact. If they provide significant compensation, then yes. There is hope for better days for China too, but not by portraying them as unmitigated evil. I can't think of any significant nation that has caved to orchestrated, vested moral outrage and said "sorry you guys... we'll hold elections next years and play by your rules henceforth", especially when the very countries asking for this unrepentant about their own past transgressions costing millions of lives (atomic bombs, Iraq invasion etc.)

brodo 5y ago
Germany will provide around 1.1 billion EUR but they will do it by sponsoring social projects over the next 30 years.
- Daho0n 5y ago
  Do you have other examples?
- dragonelite 5y ago
  Social project run by western NGOs I guess? What is 1.1 billion when the west steals like 2~3 trillion each year since ww2 from the global south. You can smooth over a lot of mismanagement or save a lot of costs this way. It also seems the dividend from the colonial days is not enough anymore to keep the West going given their infrastructure seem to crumble every year. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2021.1899153?scroll=top&needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2021.1...
riffraff 5y ago
> I can't think of any significant nation that has caved to orchestrated, vested moral outrage and said "sorry you guys... we'll hold elections next years and play by your rules henceforth", Governments regularly cave in due to protests in democratic countries. It happened in the Netherlands a few months ago, for example. Moreover, it's fundamentally important the fact that protests exist. Comparing any western democracy to a dictatorship is the worst form of whataboutism.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > Comparing any western democracy to a dictatorship is the worst form of whataboutism. Perhaps. Or perhaps not acknowledging that under the umbrella of democracy the same things happen, is whataboutism. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... In my country United States specifically did this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#1947–1970s:_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Another example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese The English version says that it "allegedly" happened while in all the other languages it says it did happen, because it's true. In short, the CIA helped a group of fascists to organise a (failed) coup d'etat in Italy in 1973 fearing that socialist and communists could win the elections and later on were involved in what we call here "black terrorism" far-right terrorism that killed over 200 innocent people putting bombs in railroad stations or in crowded town squares. In Italy, an allied sovereign country. Imagine what they did to their enemies. Funny hu?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Or perhaps not acknowledging that under the umbrella of democracy the same things happen, is whataboutism. No. That may be denial, but “whataboutism” is a variant (or, really, just a different name for) the tu quoque fallacy that deflects criticism by accusing the critic of hypocritically ignoring the same action they criticize when committed by a friendly party (or committing it themselves). A critic denying that a friendly party engages in the act they are criticizing isn’t “whataboutism”. It may or may not be hypcocrisy, denialism, or something else, but its not whataboutism. OTOH, accusing a critic of whataboutism (and invoking a nonstandard – indeed inverted – definition of “whataboutism” to do it) when they point out whataboutism as a deflection technique, so as to deflect the criticism contained in the original accusation of whataboutism is advanced-level whataboutism.
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      > the tu quoque fallacy that deflects criticism by accusing the critic of hypocritically ignoring the same action they criticize I'm not justifying what happens in China, I'm saying that the US democracy spent 65 million dollars of 1948-1970s money to control the politics of a sovereign allied and financed far right terrorist groups that killed hundreds of innocent people and still refuse as of today to release the documents about it. Sometimes some democracies are simply not better than regimes. They can be equally bad, you knew if it happened to your country. So maybe is denial, but maybe whataboutism is the idea that "we did some things, but look at us, we are a democracy, we did it because obviously it was necessary to preserve it, because the others are the real bad ones".

brodo 5y ago

Germany will provide around 1.1 billion EUR but they will do it by sponsoring social projects over the next 30 years.

Daho0n 5y ago
Do you have other examples?
dragonelite 5y ago
Social project run by western NGOs I guess? What is 1.1 billion when the west steals like 2~3 trillion each year since ww2 from the global south. You can smooth over a lot of mismanagement or save a lot of costs this way. It also seems the dividend from the colonial days is not enough anymore to keep the West going given their infrastructure seem to crumble every year. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2021.1899153?scroll=top&needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2021.1...

riffraff 5y ago

> I can't think of any significant nation that has caved to orchestrated, vested moral outrage and said "sorry you guys... we'll hold elections next years and play by your rules henceforth", Governments regularly cave in due to protests in democratic countries. It happened in the Netherlands a few months ago, for example. Moreover, it's fundamentally important the fact that protests exist. Comparing any western democracy to a dictatorship is the worst form of whataboutism.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> Comparing any western democracy to a dictatorship is the worst form of whataboutism. Perhaps. Or perhaps not acknowledging that under the umbrella of democracy the same things happen, is whataboutism. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... In my country United States specifically did this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#1947–1970s:_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Another example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golpe_Borghese The English version says that it "allegedly" happened while in all the other languages it says it did happen, because it's true. In short, the CIA helped a group of fascists to organise a (failed) coup d'etat in Italy in 1973 fearing that socialist and communists could win the elections and later on were involved in what we call here "black terrorism" far-right terrorism that killed over 200 innocent people putting bombs in railroad stations or in crowded town squares. In Italy, an allied sovereign country. Imagine what they did to their enemies. Funny hu?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Or perhaps not acknowledging that under the umbrella of democracy the same things happen, is whataboutism. No. That may be denial, but “whataboutism” is a variant (or, really, just a different name for) the tu quoque fallacy that deflects criticism by accusing the critic of hypocritically ignoring the same action they criticize when committed by a friendly party (or committing it themselves). A critic denying that a friendly party engages in the act they are criticizing isn’t “whataboutism”. It may or may not be hypcocrisy, denialism, or something else, but its not whataboutism. OTOH, accusing a critic of whataboutism (and invoking a nonstandard – indeed inverted – definition of “whataboutism” to do it) when they point out whataboutism as a deflection technique, so as to deflect the criticism contained in the original accusation of whataboutism is advanced-level whataboutism.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    > the tu quoque fallacy that deflects criticism by accusing the critic of hypocritically ignoring the same action they criticize I'm not justifying what happens in China, I'm saying that the US democracy spent 65 million dollars of 1948-1970s money to control the politics of a sovereign allied and financed far right terrorist groups that killed hundreds of innocent people and still refuse as of today to release the documents about it. Sometimes some democracies are simply not better than regimes. They can be equally bad, you knew if it happened to your country. So maybe is denial, but maybe whataboutism is the idea that "we did some things, but look at us, we are a democracy, we did it because obviously it was necessary to preserve it, because the others are the real bad ones".