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Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? Perhaps it's tim

Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people? That's how humans have progressed these thousands of years. Not by paranoid, corporate silos and NIH syndrome and draconian patents.

FrozenSynapse 5y ago
wtf? How can you copy Yoga?! You can copy a design language tho
- dragonsh 5y ago
  Oh sure a specific set of exercise or regime which has a specific effect on body can be a copyright or patent depending on the media and the way they are presented. Like people talking about Ashtang Vinyasa Yoga, Viniyoga, Kundalini Yoga all can be patented in a specific way e.g. [1], obviously need to pay lawyer fee and go to courts to determine later if it can be used to earn money when other party who need to pay do not agree. It waste resources, hamper growth and dissemination of knowledge. If someone patented the Decimal System or Abacus or Gun powder or Pythogorus Theorem or Fibonnaci Series or Newton patented its laws of motion and anyone using this laws and formula's in any system needs to pay royalty not sure what weird world will be. Human knowledge stand on the giant shoulders of others and patent and copyright with ever-greening and useless litigation are making it hard and difficult. Can't fathom someone can copyright a rectangle drawing and sue phone companies for launching rectangle phones. [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US8605152 https://patents.google.com/patent/US8605152
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Jeeze, that's one of the most egregious patents I've seen in a while. Hopefully it wouldn't stand up in a post Alice Corp world.
  - WanderPanda 5y ago
    > Human knowledge stand on the giant shoulders of others and patent and copyright with ever-greening and useless litigation are making it hard and difficult. Can't fathom someone can copyright a rectangle drawing and sue phone companies for launching rectangle phones. How is this even an argument, given that patents expire?
    - dragonsh 5y ago
      It is an argument given there is a concept of ever-greening. Also most of the time Patent system stifles the innovation it was designed to encourage [1] [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patent-system-often-stifles-the-innovation-it-was-designed-to-encourage/ar-BB1eExdy https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patent-system-often-stifle...
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      > How is this even an argument, given that patents expire? These days, many patented technologies expire faster than patents on them. In those cases, patents are quite literally halting progress.
      - WanderPanda 5y ago
        Wait, are you saying that because technological progress is too fast, technological progress is slow?
        TeMPOraL 5y ago
        Yes. It's because technological progress is fast in general, halting a particular avenue of development down can cause it to never be pursued again. Technological progress isn't a line, it's a graph. Someone patents an invention and decides to sit on it, and by the time the patent expires, the entire technological environment has shifted around in a way which makes that invention worthless, and follow-up work unlikely to happen. Whereas, were it not for that patent, the invention would had people extending it further, perhaps generating even more immediately useful technologies. In this way, a patent - in particular, a defensive patent, taken to prevent anyone from developing a technology that endangers your business - is closing off avenues of progress.
- unixhero 5y ago
  You wouldn't download a yoga.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
Patents by the "western world" is a solution to secrecy. It's not perfect, but i don't think there's a better way. Corporate silos is exactly what it's trying to fix.
mosselman 5y ago
> Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? I don't think the comparison holds at all: Yoga is something people do in many different ways, not a specific product, nor is 'the western world' a single entity. When I do Yoga I am not selling my attempt at whatever 'real' yoga is for profit. This comparison might have made sense, mind you, not much, if I had said that other companies should feel dirty for making tablets after the first one was made. > Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people? I agree with this and is a bit stating the obvious. This is, as you say, basically how mankind works. To be clear I don't think Huawei should be prevented from doing this, I just think it is unauthentic which I don't like. It is purely an expression of my dislike of what they've created not a call to action for some team of lawyers.
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  Maybe a better example would be when a US company patented basmati rice and wanted to extort India into paying royalties and almost succeeded with it: https://sciencebusiness.net/news/72228/The-story-of-the-basmati-rice-patent-battle https://sciencebusiness.net/news/72228/The-story-of-the-basm...
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    …or like India broadcasting the IPL cricket back to England? Because, either no one can clone and customise, or - god forbid - everyone can. [Oddly its the latter idea that seems to bother many people, even though its clearly and objectively less prejudicial].

FrozenSynapse 5y ago

wtf? How can you copy Yoga?! You can copy a design language tho

dragonsh 5y ago
Oh sure a specific set of exercise or regime which has a specific effect on body can be a copyright or patent depending on the media and the way they are presented. Like people talking about Ashtang Vinyasa Yoga, Viniyoga, Kundalini Yoga all can be patented in a specific way e.g. [1], obviously need to pay lawyer fee and go to courts to determine later if it can be used to earn money when other party who need to pay do not agree. It waste resources, hamper growth and dissemination of knowledge. If someone patented the Decimal System or Abacus or Gun powder or Pythogorus Theorem or Fibonnaci Series or Newton patented its laws of motion and anyone using this laws and formula's in any system needs to pay royalty not sure what weird world will be. Human knowledge stand on the giant shoulders of others and patent and copyright with ever-greening and useless litigation are making it hard and difficult. Can't fathom someone can copyright a rectangle drawing and sue phone companies for launching rectangle phones. [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US8605152 https://patents.google.com/patent/US8605152
- monocasa 5y ago
  Jeeze, that's one of the most egregious patents I've seen in a while. Hopefully it wouldn't stand up in a post Alice Corp world.
- WanderPanda 5y ago
  > Human knowledge stand on the giant shoulders of others and patent and copyright with ever-greening and useless litigation are making it hard and difficult. Can't fathom someone can copyright a rectangle drawing and sue phone companies for launching rectangle phones. How is this even an argument, given that patents expire?
  - dragonsh 5y ago
    It is an argument given there is a concept of ever-greening. Also most of the time Patent system stifles the innovation it was designed to encourage [1] [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patent-system-often-stifles-the-innovation-it-was-designed-to-encourage/ar-BB1eExdy https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patent-system-often-stifle...
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    > How is this even an argument, given that patents expire? These days, many patented technologies expire faster than patents on them. In those cases, patents are quite literally halting progress.
    - WanderPanda 5y ago
      Wait, are you saying that because technological progress is too fast, technological progress is slow?
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago
        Yes. It's because technological progress is fast in general, halting a particular avenue of development down can cause it to never be pursued again. Technological progress isn't a line, it's a graph. Someone patents an invention and decides to sit on it, and by the time the patent expires, the entire technological environment has shifted around in a way which makes that invention worthless, and follow-up work unlikely to happen. Whereas, were it not for that patent, the invention would had people extending it further, perhaps generating even more immediately useful technologies. In this way, a patent - in particular, a defensive patent, taken to prevent anyone from developing a technology that endangers your business - is closing off avenues of progress.
unixhero 5y ago
You wouldn't download a yoga.

NicoJuicy 5y ago

Patents by the "western world" is a solution to secrecy. It's not perfect, but i don't think there's a better way. Corporate silos is exactly what it's trying to fix.

mosselman 5y ago

> Yeah of course the same way Western world feels "dirty" because they copied Yoga or patented indigenous herbals or any number of other things? I don't think the comparison holds at all: Yoga is something people do in many different ways, not a specific product, nor is 'the western world' a single entity. When I do Yoga I am not selling my attempt at whatever 'real' yoga is for profit. This comparison might have made sense, mind you, not much, if I had said that other companies should feel dirty for making tablets after the first one was made. > Perhaps it's time we recognised ideas and concepts are meant to be taken up and extended by other people? I agree with this and is a bit stating the obvious. This is, as you say, basically how mankind works. To be clear I don't think Huawei should be prevented from doing this, I just think it is unauthentic which I don't like. It is purely an expression of my dislike of what they've created not a call to action for some team of lawyers.

rjzzleep 5y ago
Maybe a better example would be when a US company patented basmati rice and wanted to extort India into paying royalties and almost succeeded with it: https://sciencebusiness.net/news/72228/The-story-of-the-basmati-rice-patent-battle https://sciencebusiness.net/news/72228/The-story-of-the-basm...
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  …or like India broadcasting the IPL cricket back to England? Because, either no one can clone and customise, or - god forbid - everyone can. [Oddly its the latter idea that seems to bother many people, even though its clearly and objectively less prejudicial].