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Next steps? How about: 1. Break GNOME's hard dependency on systemd. I don't mean refuse to use it, just don't force people to have to do so. 2. Fix that damn

Next steps? How about: 1. Break GNOME's hard dependency on systemd. I don't mean refuse to use it, just don't force people to have to do so. 2. Fix that damn file picker dialog we've been groaning about for 20 years. Specifically, put the full path in an editable textbox. I'm not kidding! This step alone would be sooo much of a usability improvement for me! I don't mind if you guys take a year-long hiatus and just do those two things.

viraptor 5y ago
Doesn't Ubuntu's logind shim solve the first point already?
- tremon 5y ago
  I'd say that shim and elogind are third-party workarounds. The type of kludge you usually only need for proprietary software.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Not as far as I am aware. I'm not 100% familiar with the nitty-gritty of this, but it forced the Devuan folks to fork Debian rather than just remove some packages and install others. Obviously if the solution did not require altering the source code of some of the existing packages (including GNOME ones AFAICR) - nobody would have gone and forked a distro.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    They need to repackage at least the user and system service packages which in Debian now carry .service files rather than other init configuration.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    Since the decision made by Debian was that systemd will be the only supported init system, they had to fork to maintain alternative versions of packages depending on the init system, so I don’t think it’s fair to say it is on GNOME.
jsproc 5y ago
You can use CTRL+l to edit the full path in the file picker dialog. But I agree with your point, it could be improved. My personal gripe with the file picker is that backspace does not go to the parent directory anymore.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Ctrl+I? I'm using Cinnamon 3.8.8 (and, say, gedit 3.30.2) and that doesn't work.
deleted 5y ago
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pmlnr 5y ago
> 2. Fix that damn file picker dialog we've been groaning about for 20 years. Hell, yes, please.
kaba0 5y ago
I don’t think they hard-depend on systemd. See https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd/Gentoo https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd/Gen...
squiggleblaz 5y ago
The way I mostly deal with the open filepicker is just drag and drop a file in there. In Windows, this tries to copy the file to the location, which is an insane thing for a filepicker to do: in gtk, this just shows the file and selects it. Most file managers have better facilities to find and manage files, so you can paste the path into it or use a command like `rox -s (paste)` to get the file you want. It also works if you drag and drop a folder in it to switch to the folder. Improving the filepicker to make it work for everyone is a fool's errand. Much better off making it integrate with filemanagers adequately. As for the systemd dependency, I think this is firmly a case where the only way to change their minds is to make the changes yourself, maintain a rebase fork[1] for several years, and show that the demand is there and the complexity is worth it. Considering the major Linux distributions default to systemd and it has a variety of features not included in traditional init, I can understand why they wouldn't want to do it unless it was proven to be valuable in advance. [1] Do not give it a different name: it's just "the gnome fork that takes full advantage of systemd when it's present but does not require it". Do not increase or decrease its scope: no fixing filepickers or adding traditional menubars. Either of those will cause Gnome to say "It's a different product" rather than "it proves the demand for non-systemd" amongst gnome users.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  > is just drag and drop a file in there So you're saying you need another file picker / explorer just to use GNOME's ... :-(

viraptor 5y ago

Doesn't Ubuntu's logind shim solve the first point already?

tremon 5y ago
I'd say that shim and elogind are third-party workarounds. The type of kludge you usually only need for proprietary software.
einpoklum 5y ago
Not as far as I am aware. I'm not 100% familiar with the nitty-gritty of this, but it forced the Devuan folks to fork Debian rather than just remove some packages and install others. Obviously if the solution did not require altering the source code of some of the existing packages (including GNOME ones AFAICR) - nobody would have gone and forked a distro.
- viraptor 5y ago
  They need to repackage at least the user and system service packages which in Debian now carry .service files rather than other init configuration.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Since the decision made by Debian was that systemd will be the only supported init system, they had to fork to maintain alternative versions of packages depending on the init system, so I don’t think it’s fair to say it is on GNOME.

jsproc 5y ago

You can use CTRL+l to edit the full path in the file picker dialog. But I agree with your point, it could be improved. My personal gripe with the file picker is that backspace does not go to the parent directory anymore.

einpoklum 5y ago
Ctrl+I? I'm using Cinnamon 3.8.8 (and, say, gedit 3.30.2) and that doesn't work.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pmlnr 5y ago

> 2. Fix that damn file picker dialog we've been groaning about for 20 years. Hell, yes, please.

kaba0 5y ago

I don’t think they hard-depend on systemd. See https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd/Gentoo https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd/Gen...

squiggleblaz 5y ago

The way I mostly deal with the open filepicker is just drag and drop a file in there. In Windows, this tries to copy the file to the location, which is an insane thing for a filepicker to do: in gtk, this just shows the file and selects it. Most file managers have better facilities to find and manage files, so you can paste the path into it or use a command like `rox -s (paste)` to get the file you want. It also works if you drag and drop a folder in it to switch to the folder. Improving the filepicker to make it work for everyone is a fool's errand. Much better off making it integrate with filemanagers adequately. As for the systemd dependency, I think this is firmly a case where the only way to change their minds is to make the changes yourself, maintain a rebase fork[1] for several years, and show that the demand is there and the complexity is worth it. Considering the major Linux distributions default to systemd and it has a variety of features not included in traditional init, I can understand why they wouldn't want to do it unless it was proven to be valuable in advance. [1] Do not give it a different name: it's just "the gnome fork that takes full advantage of systemd when it's present but does not require it". Do not increase or decrease its scope: no fixing filepickers or adding traditional menubars. Either of those will cause Gnome to say "It's a different product" rather than "it proves the demand for non-systemd" amongst gnome users.

einpoklum 5y ago
> is just drag and drop a file in there So you're saying you need another file picker / explorer just to use GNOME's ... :-(