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I don't think you can argue that a society built on admitting based on diversity rather than even imperfect standardized testing can be more independent of the

I don't think you can argue that a society built on admitting based on diversity rather than even imperfect standardized testing can be more independent of the pre-existing network. By denying admits from poor "overrepresented" minorities you preserve the status quo, since in practice affirmative action merely admits minorities who are already wealthy and connected rather than lifting people out of poverty. At least in the Gao Kao system you have new entrants in upper socioeconomic tiers since you can realistically study your way out of poverty. Those entrants can bring new viewpoints whereas wealthy people, even if they're different races, are fairly homogenous in life experience. Personally I believe standardized tests reflect the degree of time and diligence invested into preparing for them ("grit"), which although negatively impacted by poverty is still a strong signal for future success.

omegaworks 5y ago
>since you can realistically study your way out of poverty Since the advent of standardized testing, wealthy subjects have used their means to cheat.
gumby 5y ago
The Bac was a tool of neutral advancement but I really don’t think it has been in decades. SAT has a more mixed history and has never been particularly neutral (more like am IQ test). Gao Kao has a very long and mixed record but I agree that for a long time it was at least intended to be neutral. But the “princelings” (太子黨) show how neutral it really is today. Personally I take a dim view of the utility of any test that can be crammed for. > I don't think you can argue that a society built on admitting based on diversity rather than even imperfect standardized testing can be more independent of the pre-existing network. Certainly you can, and I am not only citing such an argument and agreeing with it, but am such an example. It’s hardly perfect of course. But just for myself: I am genetically a “mongrel” (per the then laws of the country of my birth), my father was the only of his siblings to enter university; their parents had finished only grades 3 and 6. My mother of a race normally banned from the country. Zero status there. But I attended what is at times described as the “best”* high school in the USA and the so-called “best” university due in part to great SAT scores. (Note: almost four decades ago!). So the system can work. Those with preexisting networks will still have an advantage, but I gained access to them too. I suppose you could say I traveled to the USA so I was inherently in some sort of “in group”. I don’t remember that there was any SAT prep in those days though perhaps it was just not available to me. I certainly don’t remember any of my schoolmates studying for it. * quotation marks because I consider such unidimensional claims to be fatuous. Mentioning them simply to supply a real world example.

omegaworks 5y ago

>since you can realistically study your way out of poverty Since the advent of standardized testing, wealthy subjects have used their means to cheat.

gumby 5y ago

The Bac was a tool of neutral advancement but I really don’t think it has been in decades. SAT has a more mixed history and has never been particularly neutral (more like am IQ test). Gao Kao has a very long and mixed record but I agree that for a long time it was at least intended to be neutral. But the “princelings” (太子黨) show how neutral it really is today. Personally I take a dim view of the utility of any test that can be crammed for. > I don't think you can argue that a society built on admitting based on diversity rather than even imperfect standardized testing can be more independent of the pre-existing network. Certainly you can, and I am not only citing such an argument and agreeing with it, but am such an example. It’s hardly perfect of course. But just for myself: I am genetically a “mongrel” (per the then laws of the country of my birth), my father was the only of his siblings to enter university; their parents had finished only grades 3 and 6. My mother of a race normally banned from the country. Zero status there. But I attended what is at times described as the “best”* high school in the USA and the so-called “best” university due in part to great SAT scores. (Note: almost four decades ago!). So the system can work. Those with preexisting networks will still have an advantage, but I gained access to them too. I suppose you could say I traveled to the USA so I was inherently in some sort of “in group”. I don’t remember that there was any SAT prep in those days though perhaps it was just not available to me. I certainly don’t remember any of my schoolmates studying for it. * quotation marks because I consider such unidimensional claims to be fatuous. Mentioning them simply to supply a real world example.