4 ms·

There isn't a carrier virus for the mRNA shots either. It appears that is how this works. Check out HD-MAP for more info on the patch technology too

by adzm 5y ago

throwawayboise 5y ago
But is the patch introducing mRNA or the spike protein itself? It sounded like the latter (though I only read the abstract).
sp332 5y ago
Hm, does that mean the side effects would be expected to be about the same as the vaccines we have already? I'm worried that regular boosters will be an extremely hard sell if so many people get sick for days after each one.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  I think they made the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines extra strong (and double dose) because we were in the middle of a once-in-a-century pandemic. Would've been still somewhat effective at lower dosage. Folks have tested Pfizer at lower dose, and it seems to work still. But being high dose and double dose probably has also helped protect well against variants.
  - SllX 5y ago
    > I think they made the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines extra strong (and double dose) because we were in the middle of a once-in-a-century pandemic. Was looking into Pfizer’s effectiveness against the Indian variant since that seemed to be the most worrisome one out there and this was the vaccine I got. What it boils down to: 1 shot + 3 weeks: 33% effective. 2 shots + 2 weeks: 88% effective. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210525/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-indian-variant-study https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021052... Happy to have gotten both shots of Pfizer as overkill looks like exactly the right amount of kill. If I can get boosters down the line in the form of a patch, all the better really.
    - selectodude 5y ago
      The Moderna shots seem to be far more overkill than even the Pfizer ones. 100 micrograms of mRNA vs 30 in the Pfizer. Both are probably more than necessary but they had one shot to nail it and they went all in on the first try. Likely related, myself and everybody I know had far worse side effects from the Moderna shots than the people I know who received the Pfizer ones.
    - sp332 5y ago
      The 3-4 week spacing was based on the first clinical results that came back. Now that we have data on longer spacings, it looks like waiting at least 3 months results in a stronger immune response. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001211 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... We had to rush the second shots to get immunity quickly, but for a later booster, the required dose might be a lot lower.
- apendleton 5y ago
  Not sure about this one specifically, but these microneedle array vaccines seem to use a slightly different mechanism to elicit an immune response (they stimulate Langerhans cells, which are dendritic cells in the skin). Hard to say if that would make side effects worse or better or have no effect -- this trial was in mice so it's not like the researchers could ask -- but it's probably different enough a system that people's experiences with the injectable vaccines probably aren't especially predictive either way.

There isn't a carrier virus for the mRNA shots either. It appears that is how this works. Check out HD-MAP for more info on the patch technology too

by adzm 5y ago

There isn't a carrier virus for the mRNA shots either. It appears that is how this works. Check out HD-MAP for more info on the patch technology too

throwawayboise 5y ago

But is the patch introducing mRNA or the spike protein itself? It sounded like the latter (though I only read the abstract).

sp332 5y ago

Hm, does that mean the side effects would be expected to be about the same as the vaccines we have already? I'm worried that regular boosters will be an extremely hard sell if so many people get sick for days after each one.

Robotbeat 5y ago
I think they made the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines extra strong (and double dose) because we were in the middle of a once-in-a-century pandemic. Would've been still somewhat effective at lower dosage. Folks have tested Pfizer at lower dose, and it seems to work still. But being high dose and double dose probably has also helped protect well against variants.
- SllX 5y ago
  > I think they made the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines extra strong (and double dose) because we were in the middle of a once-in-a-century pandemic. Was looking into Pfizer’s effectiveness against the Indian variant since that seemed to be the most worrisome one out there and this was the vaccine I got. What it boils down to: 1 shot + 3 weeks: 33% effective. 2 shots + 2 weeks: 88% effective. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210525/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-indian-variant-study https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021052... Happy to have gotten both shots of Pfizer as overkill looks like exactly the right amount of kill. If I can get boosters down the line in the form of a patch, all the better really.
  - selectodude 5y ago
    The Moderna shots seem to be far more overkill than even the Pfizer ones. 100 micrograms of mRNA vs 30 in the Pfizer. Both are probably more than necessary but they had one shot to nail it and they went all in on the first try. Likely related, myself and everybody I know had far worse side effects from the Moderna shots than the people I know who received the Pfizer ones.
  - sp332 5y ago
    The 3-4 week spacing was based on the first clinical results that came back. Now that we have data on longer spacings, it looks like waiting at least 3 months results in a stronger immune response. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001211 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... We had to rush the second shots to get immunity quickly, but for a later booster, the required dose might be a lot lower.
apendleton 5y ago
Not sure about this one specifically, but these microneedle array vaccines seem to use a slightly different mechanism to elicit an immune response (they stimulate Langerhans cells, which are dendritic cells in the skin). Hard to say if that would make side effects worse or better or have no effect -- this trial was in mice so it's not like the researchers could ask -- but it's probably different enough a system that people's experiences with the injectable vaccines probably aren't especially predictive either way.