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from the article > The problem is, that's not what's happening. Instead, Amazon managers are hiring people they otherwise wouldn't, or shouldn't, just so they c

from the article > The problem is, that's not what's happening. Instead, Amazon managers are hiring people they otherwise wouldn't, or shouldn't, just so they can later fire them to hit their goal. reminds me a bit of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdote of an occurrence in India during British rule.[2][3][4] The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.[5]

op03 5y ago
Why not compare it to sports teams where you keep some people on a bench through the season? I definately dont think a whole bunch of dangerous cobras are being creared.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  One reason to use that analogy would be to suggest that a lot of harm is consequently created by incentivizing the culling. Also a lot of people just don't think about team sports that much.
Thorrez 5y ago
The government should have announced a specific date as the last day to get the bounty. Then all the breeders would kill all their cobras and turn them in on that day. Still not ideal in that breeders are getting rewarded, but at least there isn't a bunch of cobras being released.
- rusk 5y ago
  Not bad, except the British Government were in the business of extracting wealth more so than endowing... no doubt someone did the sums on this strategy and said “cor blimey let’s get out of here”
  - Thorrez 5y ago
    If they're loath to paying money, why did they even create the bounty in the first place?
    - rusk 5y ago
      To increase agricultural output would be my guess. There is a parallel to this closer to home. There used to be a bounty on fox tongues because foxes were constantly worrying farm animals. Not sure about the outcome for the poor foxes but this no doubt sprang from similar thinking.
      - Thorrez 5y ago
        Wouldn't giving a date on the last bounty also increase agricultural output?
        rusk 5y ago
        Please expand on this I am interested to hear.
TapWaterBandit 5y ago
I don't really see why this is a problem. It seems like all this policy does is lead to the hiring of people who seem like more "iffy" hires during the interviewing process who are given the opportunity to work/learn/shine at Amazon. I can see the point that maybe that employee would have taken another role instead of the Amazon one, but I highly doubt anyone who was "hired to be fired" who then showed they were a great fit/good employee was then fired to fulfil the policy. If instead of being called "Hire to Fire" the policy was called "Rock or drop" (as in show you rock or you'll get dropped), would this even be worthy of an article? Why is the very idea that someone be given a chance that also comes with the reality that you might not make it so hard for some to accept?
- mioasndo 5y ago
  What you're missing is that people are intentionally hired and set up for failure from the start. This seems to be standard practice at Amazon. You can't just fire people randomly, there is a whole process including documenting how the employee is falling behind and giving the employee a warning and a chance to dispute, etc. Setting up a new employee for failure by abusing the internal processes, setting up roadblocks and giving them unreasonable tasks or incorrect requirements is pretty common from what I've seen.
  - logicslave 5y ago
    its definitely common. Really short stints on a resume damage careers
    - SilurianWenlock 5y ago
      What counts as really short?
    - sgt101 5y ago
      Over three years is more than enough. Less than 18mths is concerning. Of course, some people make a virtue of 6 to 12 mth engagements each of which have defined outcomes - and you hire these people to come and do the same for you.
bihla 5y ago
Exact same thing happened with rats in Hanoi under French rule.
conjectures 5y ago
There's a phrase coined for this: Goodhart's law. C.f. http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/240-goodharts-law-and-why-metrics-fail-david-manheim/ http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/240-goodharts-law-and-w...
darepublic 5y ago
...when the bad managers set their now worthless incompetent devs free... The wild unemployed dev population increased.

op03 5y ago

Why not compare it to sports teams where you keep some people on a bench through the season? I definately dont think a whole bunch of dangerous cobras are being creared.

brailsafe 5y ago
One reason to use that analogy would be to suggest that a lot of harm is consequently created by incentivizing the culling. Also a lot of people just don't think about team sports that much.

Thorrez 5y ago

The government should have announced a specific date as the last day to get the bounty. Then all the breeders would kill all their cobras and turn them in on that day. Still not ideal in that breeders are getting rewarded, but at least there isn't a bunch of cobras being released.

rusk 5y ago
Not bad, except the British Government were in the business of extracting wealth more so than endowing... no doubt someone did the sums on this strategy and said “cor blimey let’s get out of here”
- Thorrez 5y ago
  If they're loath to paying money, why did they even create the bounty in the first place?
  - rusk 5y ago
    To increase agricultural output would be my guess. There is a parallel to this closer to home. There used to be a bounty on fox tongues because foxes were constantly worrying farm animals. Not sure about the outcome for the poor foxes but this no doubt sprang from similar thinking.
    - Thorrez 5y ago
      Wouldn't giving a date on the last bounty also increase agricultural output?
      - rusk 5y ago
        Please expand on this I am interested to hear.

TapWaterBandit 5y ago

I don't really see why this is a problem. It seems like all this policy does is lead to the hiring of people who seem like more "iffy" hires during the interviewing process who are given the opportunity to work/learn/shine at Amazon. I can see the point that maybe that employee would have taken another role instead of the Amazon one, but I highly doubt anyone who was "hired to be fired" who then showed they were a great fit/good employee was then fired to fulfil the policy. If instead of being called "Hire to Fire" the policy was called "Rock or drop" (as in show you rock or you'll get dropped), would this even be worthy of an article? Why is the very idea that someone be given a chance that also comes with the reality that you might not make it so hard for some to accept?

mioasndo 5y ago
What you're missing is that people are intentionally hired and set up for failure from the start. This seems to be standard practice at Amazon. You can't just fire people randomly, there is a whole process including documenting how the employee is falling behind and giving the employee a warning and a chance to dispute, etc. Setting up a new employee for failure by abusing the internal processes, setting up roadblocks and giving them unreasonable tasks or incorrect requirements is pretty common from what I've seen.
- logicslave 5y ago
  its definitely common. Really short stints on a resume damage careers
  - SilurianWenlock 5y ago
    What counts as really short?
  - sgt101 5y ago
    Over three years is more than enough. Less than 18mths is concerning. Of course, some people make a virtue of 6 to 12 mth engagements each of which have defined outcomes - and you hire these people to come and do the same for you.

bihla 5y ago

Exact same thing happened with rats in Hanoi under French rule.

conjectures 5y ago

There's a phrase coined for this: Goodhart's law. C.f. http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/240-goodharts-law-and-why-metrics-fail-david-manheim/ http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/240-goodharts-law-and-w...

darepublic 5y ago

...when the bad managers set their now worthless incompetent devs free... The wild unemployed dev population increased.