4 ms·

Off topic, but I really can’t wait for the approval/EUA for children under 12 to happen because the only people who are still unvaccinated in my family are my k

Off topic, but I really can’t wait for the approval/EUA for children under 12 to happen because the only people who are still unvaccinated in my family are my kids which to a large degree means we have to keep being very careful. Seems like that age group won’t be able to get vaccinated until October at the earliest and frankly that sucks.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Why? Kids very rarely get seriously ill from COVID-19, and if everyone else is vaccinated they should be safe as well.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Karunamon 5y ago
  They don't need to get seriously ill from it - they'll contract it and then carry it home to their caregivers. Schools can be considered continuous super-spreader events.
  - praveenperera 5y ago
    The care givers who are vaccinated by now? Kids weren’t even shown to be to be too infectious. No vaccine is 100% safe, it’s very possible the risks of vaccinating kids outweighs the rewards.
    - cma 5y ago
      >No vaccine is 100% safe Is the virus 100% safe? Weigh them against each other and account for who the kids could spread it to, how much vaccine uptake there is, immune compromised they could spread it to who can't be protected well from the vaccine, etc.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        If the risk of harm to kids from the virus is say 1%, and 0.1% for the vaccine, then it would still be better to go unvaccinated since the risk of catching the virus is most likely less than 10% once adults are vaccinated.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > Schools can be considered continuous super-spreader events. Where is the data to support this? Duke University released a peer reviewed study[1] in January that showed the opposite (when schools take appropriate measures). > Duke and UNC researchers evaluated the secondary transmission of COVID-19 in 11 North Carolina school districts that held in-person instruction in the first nine weeks of the 2020-2021 school year and identified minimal COVID-19 transmission in the schools -- much lower than the rate of community spread. The CDC have also published this[2] helpful overview about the susceptibility of children to the virus/disease (low) and the risk of transmission (also low). I'd also urge you (or anyone) to read this very helpful article in the BMJ[3] about the risks of covid-19, but for those worried about their children it may help alleviate some concerns: > The second row of table 2 shows that three deaths from covid-19 have been recorded among over 7 million schoolchildren aged 5 to 14 (around 1 in 2.4 million), an extremely low risk that represents only 2% of the average normal risk faced by this group. This amounts to around two days’ extra risk of dying during the 112 days of the epidemic. In the same period this age group experienced 138 deaths from other causes. The CDC report gives a clue as to where the focus should be: > Underlying medical conditions are also more commonly reported among children who are hospitalized or admitted to an ICU In short, schools aren't providing super-spreader events. [1] https://today.duke.edu/2021/01/duke-study-when-schools-take-covid-safety-measures-viral-transmissions-person-schooling-are https://today.duke.edu/2021/01/duke-study-when-schools-take-... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... [3] https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259 https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259
- unclenoriega 5y ago
  Don't forget that no vaccine is 100% effective. There have been breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization and even some deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre...
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    But this is also true of any communicable disease. Rare serious complications taken with anything and not just to “sick” people. We don’t go back to normal when the earth is a sterile disease free environment, we go back when the outsized risk of this particular disease reduces to the noise floor of everything else.
    - Animats 5y ago
      With these new delivery technologies and 95% effective vaccines, we can go for total elimination. "When you get to hell, tell smallpox we said hello" - XKCD
- sumthinprofound 5y ago
  There appears to be lingering long term inflammation and cardiac damage in a percentage of children after covid infection. https://news.uthscsa.edu/post-covid-syndrome-severely-damages-childrens-hearts-immense-inflammation-causing-cardiac-blood-vessel-dilation/ https://news.uthscsa.edu/post-covid-syndrome-severely-damage...
- asveikau 5y ago
  New infections means new opportunities to mutate, does it not? So maybe it silently infects kids now, but, through infecting kids, it changes enough to evade current vaccines, or, starts producing more symptoms in kids. I don't know how likely either of these scenarios is. But it seems like leaving kids unvax'd allows a possible reservoir of virus that could resurface and affect people.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    it's not like we'll ever get anywhere near all US adults to take the vaccine anyways, the subject has become far too politicized. At this point there's a substantial chunk of the US population hellbent on demonstrating the lockdowns and vaccines and everything that's been done throughout 2020 was completely unnecessary, by simply continuing to do nothing. They will never take a vaccine, they'll risk getting sick and let the natural immunity unfold. They're more concerned with overturning the 2020 election results.
    - mistermann 5y ago
      Do all these people believe each of these things, or does a belief in any single one of them qualify them for inclusion in the chunk?
  - Taniwha 5y ago
    So long as there's a reservoir of anti-vaxers for the virus to mutate in we'll keep seeing breakout mutations
_kbh_ 5y ago
Realistically until your country or least your local area reaches herd immunity rates you should still be careful to try and help the people who cannot get the vaccine.

throwawayboise 5y ago

Why? Kids very rarely get seriously ill from COVID-19, and if everyone else is vaccinated they should be safe as well.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Karunamon 5y ago
They don't need to get seriously ill from it - they'll contract it and then carry it home to their caregivers. Schools can be considered continuous super-spreader events.
- praveenperera 5y ago
  The care givers who are vaccinated by now? Kids weren’t even shown to be to be too infectious. No vaccine is 100% safe, it’s very possible the risks of vaccinating kids outweighs the rewards.
  - cma 5y ago
    >No vaccine is 100% safe Is the virus 100% safe? Weigh them against each other and account for who the kids could spread it to, how much vaccine uptake there is, immune compromised they could spread it to who can't be protected well from the vaccine, etc.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      If the risk of harm to kids from the virus is say 1%, and 0.1% for the vaccine, then it would still be better to go unvaccinated since the risk of catching the virus is most likely less than 10% once adults are vaccinated.
- brigandish 5y ago
  > Schools can be considered continuous super-spreader events. Where is the data to support this? Duke University released a peer reviewed study[1] in January that showed the opposite (when schools take appropriate measures). > Duke and UNC researchers evaluated the secondary transmission of COVID-19 in 11 North Carolina school districts that held in-person instruction in the first nine weeks of the 2020-2021 school year and identified minimal COVID-19 transmission in the schools -- much lower than the rate of community spread. The CDC have also published this[2] helpful overview about the susceptibility of children to the virus/disease (low) and the risk of transmission (also low). I'd also urge you (or anyone) to read this very helpful article in the BMJ[3] about the risks of covid-19, but for those worried about their children it may help alleviate some concerns: > The second row of table 2 shows that three deaths from covid-19 have been recorded among over 7 million schoolchildren aged 5 to 14 (around 1 in 2.4 million), an extremely low risk that represents only 2% of the average normal risk faced by this group. This amounts to around two days’ extra risk of dying during the 112 days of the epidemic. In the same period this age group experienced 138 deaths from other causes. The CDC report gives a clue as to where the focus should be: > Underlying medical conditions are also more commonly reported among children who are hospitalized or admitted to an ICU In short, schools aren't providing super-spreader events. [1] https://today.duke.edu/2021/01/duke-study-when-schools-take-covid-safety-measures-viral-transmissions-person-schooling-are https://today.duke.edu/2021/01/duke-study-when-schools-take-... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... [3] https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259 https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259
unclenoriega 5y ago
Don't forget that no vaccine is 100% effective. There have been breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization and even some deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre...
- colechristensen 5y ago
  But this is also true of any communicable disease. Rare serious complications taken with anything and not just to “sick” people. We don’t go back to normal when the earth is a sterile disease free environment, we go back when the outsized risk of this particular disease reduces to the noise floor of everything else.
  - Animats 5y ago
    With these new delivery technologies and 95% effective vaccines, we can go for total elimination. "When you get to hell, tell smallpox we said hello" - XKCD
sumthinprofound 5y ago
There appears to be lingering long term inflammation and cardiac damage in a percentage of children after covid infection. https://news.uthscsa.edu/post-covid-syndrome-severely-damages-childrens-hearts-immense-inflammation-causing-cardiac-blood-vessel-dilation/ https://news.uthscsa.edu/post-covid-syndrome-severely-damage...
asveikau 5y ago
New infections means new opportunities to mutate, does it not? So maybe it silently infects kids now, but, through infecting kids, it changes enough to evade current vaccines, or, starts producing more symptoms in kids. I don't know how likely either of these scenarios is. But it seems like leaving kids unvax'd allows a possible reservoir of virus that could resurface and affect people.
- pengaru 5y ago
  it's not like we'll ever get anywhere near all US adults to take the vaccine anyways, the subject has become far too politicized. At this point there's a substantial chunk of the US population hellbent on demonstrating the lockdowns and vaccines and everything that's been done throughout 2020 was completely unnecessary, by simply continuing to do nothing. They will never take a vaccine, they'll risk getting sick and let the natural immunity unfold. They're more concerned with overturning the 2020 election results.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    Do all these people believe each of these things, or does a belief in any single one of them qualify them for inclusion in the chunk?
- Taniwha 5y ago
  So long as there's a reservoir of anti-vaxers for the virus to mutate in we'll keep seeing breakout mutations

_kbh_ 5y ago

Realistically until your country or least your local area reaches herd immunity rates you should still be careful to try and help the people who cannot get the vaccine.