6 ms·
You do realize that lots of popular old music was written by all races? Stop trying to see racism everywhere where where there is none, it'll do wonders for yo
by blacktriangle 5y ago
You do realize that lots of popular old music was written by all races?
Stop trying to see racism everywhere where where there is none, it'll do wonders for your blood pressure.
- awillen 5y agoI exercise for my blood pressure (you might've caught that in the comment you were responding to), but thanks for the suggestion! He specifically says classical music is the only acceptable kind, and the vast majority of the history of classical music was devoid of non-white people. You should read the things you're responding to a little better - it'll do wonders for your comprehension.
- maininformer 5y agoBecause non-white people do not have classical music? I agree with the parent, you see racism where it doesn't exist. Why would your mind go to only "white" classical music? PS I'm Iranian-Armenian; both have rich "classical" music history. I have myself enjoyed Celtic, Chinese and Japanese folk music. Music and rhythm is so ingrained in us that I don't need to do research to know all other nations had music in all eras too.
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- llbeansandrice 5y ago> Why would your mind go to only "white" classical music? Because the literal definition of "Classical Music" is Western music from the period of 1750 to 1820. The "Classical Period". [1] It is by definition music from old white dudes from Europe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music
- Apocryphon 5y agoIt's not an unreasonable assumption given the website's graphics all focus on Western European classical art, it's even in the hyperlink. How often do such people mean classical music of non-European genres when they refer to classical?
- Jtsummers 5y agoThe blogger uses Big-C Classical Big-M Music, which almost always means European classical music, pre-1900 [0]. You won't find many non-white composers in that particular group. Capitalization matters, it creates a proper name out of something whether we agree on that name's appropriateness or not (Classical Music being so narrowly defined could be considered a misnomer, as you've pointed out there's a lot more classical music out there). [0] I couldn't remember when I initially wrote this when the Classical Period ended, it ended earlier in the 1800s than I realized, by the common definition apparently 1820. The start was 1730 (using the earliest time people use to be generous) so "Classical Music" defines a period of less than one century of, specifically, European music.
- kazinator 5y agoClassical music doesn't need a big C or M. Simply the lack of additional qualification in "classical music" informs us that it's the historic western practice. Other classical musics are identified as such, e.g. "Indian classical music". Or else a context is established where that qualifier is understood, and then "classical music" refers to "Indian classical music".
- unethical_ban 5y agoThe point is that you directly suggest that to hold classical music in high regard could be a signal of racism. So you just said to every person who prefers classical music, "Hey, I think you could be a racist because I correlate a fondness for classical with racism."
- 34679 5y agoI notice you don't decry the lack of female representation in classical music. Is that because you're sexist?
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- Apocryphon 5y agoThere isn't a lack of female representation in classical music. There were fewer composers or performers before modern times, but hardly unknown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_date https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_bi... https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/page/1900 https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/page/1900 https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/latest/great-women-composers/ https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/latest/great-women-...
- 34679 5y agoOne can also find lists of prominent non-white composers: https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/black-composers-who-made-classical-music-history/ https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/black-composers-who... https://adaptistration.com/2018/06/04/the-composer-diversity-database/ https://adaptistration.com/2018/06/04/the-composer-diversity... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_composers_of_African_descent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_composers_of_African_d...
- JohnWhigham 5y agothe vast majority of the history of classical music was devoid of non-white people. But it's a disingenuous (and sadly all-too-common) leap to conclude they're racist. People like different things. Get over it.
- maininformer 5y agoAmen
- burnished 5y agoEven recent music history is steeped in racism. Its not imagining racism to notice that some peoples views and tastes 'just happen' to only include white people.
- krapp 5y agoSee: Music Theory and White Supremacy by Adam Neely[0] [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA The TL;DR for people who will be immediately triggered by the title and not bother to view is that Western music theory was intentionally designed around white supremacist ideals. It is exclusionary of the ideas and contributions of non-European cultures, and purposely so, as it deems them inferior.
- lliamander 5y agoI haven't finished this video yet, but its thesis so far seems rather absurd. It mentions a variety of music styles produced heavily[0] by white people (country, rock, EDM) which are not well suited to analysis by music theory, but then goes on to claim that music theory is about promoting "whiteness". This is a rather large hole, one I'm doubtful will be closed. [0] if not exclusively.
- krapp 5y agoNone of those genres are produced exclusively by white people, and two of them are direct descendants of African American music. I assume you've finished the video by now, so I look forward to reading your informed opinion of it.
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- mattowen_uk 5y agoRacism is everywhere if you look hard enough. The trick is to not actively look for it, else you'll become permanently disillusioned with the human race. We are imperfect beings, full of faults.
- smoldesu 5y agoI mean, you're not wrong, but you're also pretty damn far from the truth. Any way you slice it, the music industry of yore was affected by the same latent racism that plagued everything, and it's no surprise that white musicians account for a disproportionate amount of music published before the civil rights movement.
- Bancakes 5y agoHow is it about white people when if you want to listen to the best 90s rap songs, it's about hood bruthas killing cops, pushing dope, selling firearms, and riding nice cars?
- smoldesu 5y agoI don't think I said it was, unless I'm missing something here?
- Bancakes 5y agoI'm responding to the allegation that white people are disproportionately prevalent and influential. We're not.
- dang 5y agoYou posted religious flamewar in one thread and racial flamewar in a second thread, all on the same day. That's not at all what this site is for and we ban accounts that abuse it like this. We have to, because otherwise flamewars will burn it to a crisp, and scorched earth is not interesting (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...). If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. That means no more flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments. You've posted a few substantive ones, but many more unsubstantive ones. If you'd please stick to the former and drop the latter, we'd appreciate it.
- rchaud 5y agoNat King Cole, Duke Ellington and Chuck Berry among others made old popular music. I'm not seeing any of their names here. The author restricts it to just "classical music".
- mixmastamyk 5y agoOmission is not restriction. Specifically the author is directing the reader to instrumentals, so none of those distractingly awesome folks would apply.
- dang 5y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into flamewar, and especially not on generic ideological flamewar tangents: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... I know the GP contained a provocation, but that's no reason to single it out, pour fuel on it, and light it on fire. When you do that, you seriously damage this place. The intended spirit of HN is curiosity (specifically intellectual curiosity), and that implies a completely different way of behaving: overlooking provocations and focusing on something else that's interesting. Please do that instead. Flamewars, especially on classic flamewar topics, have nothing interesting in them because they're so tediously repetitive, and of course inevitably turn nasty as well (perhaps as a way of making them less boring [1]). So they do multiple kinds of damage here. That's not cool. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=mind%20amuse%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
- blacktriangle 5y agoI agree with everything you said, but on the flip side, I do not see provocations like the GP getting flagged, which causes the exact same decay of the community that you are trying to avoid. So in the absence of moderation on those pushing his angle, I'm not sure what we the users are left to do other than push back? EDIT: Actually, I think this is where HN's lack of a universal downvote button is a weakness. Had that been an option, I'd have simply downvoted his provocation and moved on.
- dang 5y agoIt doesn't cause the exact same decay because the original comment was about lots of things, whereas the response was just about the flamebait. The original comment was also about the article, whereas the response was a meta leap into flames of poison. That's a noticeable decay rate. That said, the GP comment was also a bad post for HN and I've posted a scolding here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27373460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27373460.
- 5y ago