5 ms·

Honestly, I would rather have the Chinese government track me around rather than the US. Only one of those has the power to ask other countries to fuck me over

Honestly, I would rather have the Chinese government track me around rather than the US. Only one of those has the power to ask other countries to fuck me over on their behalf.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
whereis 5y ago
If China dethrones US as hegemon by 2050, will you maintain this preference?
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  This question is a bit pointless. That all depends on how China behaves by then. For all we know they may not be interested in building power projection capabilities that go further than their own region.
  - whereis 5y ago
    Historical precedence says otherwise. And, in the case you've described, they wouldn't be global hegemon, anyway.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      What sort of historical precedence? Historical precedence from the Ming dynasty showed that even when they have a big fleet, they're not interested in colonizing territories. The Ming fleet only traded, not conquered. Look up Zhang He. Historical evidence from the Qing dynasty showed that in the 18th century, Chinese mining settlers in Malaysia tried to submit themselves under the rule of the Qing, but the Qing emperor refused, saying China is big enough already. Lookup Lanfang Republic. Historical precedence from the Republican era showed that the People's Republic has given up territory compared to the Republic. See all of outer Mongolia, which was ceded (and which Taiwan, a.k.a. the Republic, still formally claims). Historical evidence from a few years ago shows that China's policy is non-interventionist. Lookup Yanis Varoufaski, former Greek minister: https://youtu.be/9tJatdtv4jQ https://youtu.be/9tJatdtv4jQ Lookup Gyude Moore, "China in Africa: an African perspective" Where is the evidence that we can expect China to behave like the US?
      - whereis 5y ago
        History is littered with examples. But for China's ambitions, maybe it will depend on the nature of their alliances by then (2050 is their goal). There's a complicated relationship with Russia vis a vis scientific collab in space, and now we're entering the openly militarized age of space. Russia's relations with China, meanwhile, are improving. Besides, the nature of domination going forward, in any kinetic sense, won't involve nukes, bayonets, bow and arrow, or the like, except as backup offensive strats. Could involve, say, leaking a virus from a lab. The nature of global domination may be far less violent than we've seen, historically, but certainly has the potential to be far more insidious. I'd much rather do my part helping the West maintain their incumbent role. As for Snowdon/surv topics: everyone did it, everyone does it, espionage is the 2nd oldest profession. May I ask if you support China's ongoing initiative to reclaim Taiwan? They seem to be willing to use force to do so.
        FooBarWidget 5y ago
        Re Taiwan I think calling it an "ongoing initiative to reclaim Taiwan" is misrepresenting the situation. I think PRC would be happy to maintain status quo indefinitely, even allowing Taiwan to have strong informal ties with the world, as long as all parties don't try to break the One China Policy. The status quo has been hugely beneficial to both parties while still allowing de facto independence. By Korean standards, China is already reunified. In the late 80s or early 90s the PRC did offer One Country Two Systems with many negotiable options, but the KMT back then was too arrogant and shot that down, thinking PRC would collapse. Now that ship has sailed. I'm hoping for a peaceful resolution. Whether that's reunification, or an acceptable form of independence, I'm fine with both. It wouldn't be that bad if China-Taiwan becomes like US-Canada: independent but at peace and with good relationships. Just... Stop fighting and hating on each other, for fscks sake. I oppose any violent resolutions. But from my perspective, many parties involved in the matter seem to be hellbent on forcing a violent resolution.
        whereis 5y ago
        China has been seeking escalation of late: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-06-03/china-taiwan-war-temptation https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-06-03/chi...
dragonelite 5y ago
At the end of the day its not that important anymore, people somehow still have this illusion we really have online privacy here in the west or still free speech. I have seen more then enough censoring especially from the anti imperialist social media posters. Kinda funny moment was when twitter blocked Iranian officials from posting so the US and Iran had beef on Weibo.

Honestly, I would rather have the Chinese government track me around rather than the US. Only one of those has the power to ask other countries to fuck me over on their behalf.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

whereis 5y ago

If China dethrones US as hegemon by 2050, will you maintain this preference?

FooBarWidget 5y ago
This question is a bit pointless. That all depends on how China behaves by then. For all we know they may not be interested in building power projection capabilities that go further than their own region.
- whereis 5y ago
  Historical precedence says otherwise. And, in the case you've described, they wouldn't be global hegemon, anyway.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    What sort of historical precedence? Historical precedence from the Ming dynasty showed that even when they have a big fleet, they're not interested in colonizing territories. The Ming fleet only traded, not conquered. Look up Zhang He. Historical evidence from the Qing dynasty showed that in the 18th century, Chinese mining settlers in Malaysia tried to submit themselves under the rule of the Qing, but the Qing emperor refused, saying China is big enough already. Lookup Lanfang Republic. Historical precedence from the Republican era showed that the People's Republic has given up territory compared to the Republic. See all of outer Mongolia, which was ceded (and which Taiwan, a.k.a. the Republic, still formally claims). Historical evidence from a few years ago shows that China's policy is non-interventionist. Lookup Yanis Varoufaski, former Greek minister: https://youtu.be/9tJatdtv4jQ https://youtu.be/9tJatdtv4jQ Lookup Gyude Moore, "China in Africa: an African perspective" Where is the evidence that we can expect China to behave like the US?
    - whereis 5y ago
      History is littered with examples. But for China's ambitions, maybe it will depend on the nature of their alliances by then (2050 is their goal). There's a complicated relationship with Russia vis a vis scientific collab in space, and now we're entering the openly militarized age of space. Russia's relations with China, meanwhile, are improving. Besides, the nature of domination going forward, in any kinetic sense, won't involve nukes, bayonets, bow and arrow, or the like, except as backup offensive strats. Could involve, say, leaking a virus from a lab. The nature of global domination may be far less violent than we've seen, historically, but certainly has the potential to be far more insidious. I'd much rather do my part helping the West maintain their incumbent role. As for Snowdon/surv topics: everyone did it, everyone does it, espionage is the 2nd oldest profession. May I ask if you support China's ongoing initiative to reclaim Taiwan? They seem to be willing to use force to do so.
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        Re Taiwan I think calling it an "ongoing initiative to reclaim Taiwan" is misrepresenting the situation. I think PRC would be happy to maintain status quo indefinitely, even allowing Taiwan to have strong informal ties with the world, as long as all parties don't try to break the One China Policy. The status quo has been hugely beneficial to both parties while still allowing de facto independence. By Korean standards, China is already reunified. In the late 80s or early 90s the PRC did offer One Country Two Systems with many negotiable options, but the KMT back then was too arrogant and shot that down, thinking PRC would collapse. Now that ship has sailed. I'm hoping for a peaceful resolution. Whether that's reunification, or an acceptable form of independence, I'm fine with both. It wouldn't be that bad if China-Taiwan becomes like US-Canada: independent but at peace and with good relationships. Just... Stop fighting and hating on each other, for fscks sake. I oppose any violent resolutions. But from my perspective, many parties involved in the matter seem to be hellbent on forcing a violent resolution.
        whereis 5y ago
        China has been seeking escalation of late: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-06-03/china-taiwan-war-temptation https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-06-03/chi...

dragonelite 5y ago

At the end of the day its not that important anymore, people somehow still have this illusion we really have online privacy here in the west or still free speech. I have seen more then enough censoring especially from the anti imperialist social media posters. Kinda funny moment was when twitter blocked Iranian officials from posting so the US and Iran had beef on Weibo.