4 ms·

Well in the current ideological climate "silence is violence", as they say, damn this 1984ificaton of speech sucks. More specifically I think this is targeted

by ixacto 5y ago

Well in the current ideological climate "silence is violence", as they say, damn this 1984ificaton of speech sucks. More specifically I think this is targeted at any views they don't like which really sucks. It's a public university which means you have to see even the views that you don't like.

tines 5y ago
Too bad silence and violence almost rhyme, otherwise no one would have thought up this stupid phrase.
silicon2401 5y ago
Exemplary modern dialogue shut-down tactic. Don't question me, don't debate me, don't ask me questions, don't think. If you don't do exactly what I say is good, you're problematic. If you're not as extreme as me, you're as bad as the enemy. Things like this have made me lose faith in modern civilization; we're watching the beginning of a catastrophic downfall.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  Eh. First of all, "silence" historically has been and continues to be an avoidance tactic for dealing with racism. So there is truth in the saying. Second, the people taking this idea to extremes are a vocal minority. It's easy to see someone get canceled on Twitter and jump to the conclusion that the Red Army is right around the corner. I'm not that worried in the long run. Be understanding, but push back, and remember that some people will always be jerks no matter what the context or what ideals they find themselves aligned with.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    > "silence" historically has been and continues to be an avoidance tactic for dealing with racism. So there is truth in the saying. Freedom, like freedom of speech and freedom of association, includes the freedom to inaction and silence. Assuming the worst (that someone is racist if they don't tweet about racism every day etc) is toxic behavior
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    > Second, the people taking this idea to extremes are a vocal minority. But that's the problem, it's the extreme vocal minority who are calling for (and succeeding in) cancellations of perfectly reasonable individuals who want to speak at universities. See Jordan Peterson, etc.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  This statement is exactly true after removing "as extreme" too. These days anyone with a different opinion can be considered an enemy, extreme or not. Actually, when was it not a problem? I vaguely remember christianity's historical splits were caused by lesser disagreements (at least what was stated to be the cause).
  - ixacto 5y ago
    It’s the exact same in-group/out-group tactic that the neo-conservative republicans were using in the early 2000s with terrorism e.g. “if you’re not with us then you’re with the terrorists” == “if you’re not out protesting/twittering/tumblring then you’re with the white supremacy patriarchy.” Actually quite interesting how you can use the same tactics in a totally different population and get people all riled up. Most likely just political maneuvering by parties to engage voters. Looking at it objectively I also didn’t see the media covering the Tusla massacre (as abhorrent as it was) nearly as much as they have been in the last couple days, which does lead to the suspicion that the coverage is politically motivated.
eplanit 5y ago
Further, willfully damaging or destroying physical buildings and "things" is _not_ violence. [1] https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/ny-times-reporter-says-destroying-property-is-not-violence/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/ny-times-reporter-says-destroy...
burkaman 5y ago
As you read in both the article and the policy, the word violence has been removed and clarified as "behavior which seriously threatens the health or safety of any person".
- floren 5y ago
  "This post makes me feel unsafe"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - burkaman 5y ago
    This isn't a social media policy, so I still don't understand why everyone's focusing on "posts", but sure, if they apply this clause to anything that makes anyone feel unsafe, that would be bad. I guess you win there. If you're able to come up with a useful set of rules that can't possibly be abused, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to see them.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I wonder if they have the integrity to apply that to cigarette smoking, drinking alcohol, engaging in unprotected sex (while infectious with STD), or having a lifestyle that causes obesity.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Warning: Off-topic rabbit-hole follows. I've seen "silence is violence" a number of times, and regarded it (justifiably, I think) as manipulative BS. Then I saw one sign that said "silence = additional deaths". That one I found a bit harder to dismiss. If (if) you think the statistics indicate that blacks are getting killed at disproportional rates, and if you think that you can put enough political pressure on to change things, then silence is not direct violence, but it is letting things continue to happen the way they've been happening. It at least made me think, which "silence is violence" didn't.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  While that argument is more nuanced than "silence is violence", it has its own share of issues. Death is egalitarian but its judgement isn't based on Rawlsian principles. Rather, it is firmly staked in Darwinian ones. Suggesting one's "silence" or lack thereof has an effect on that is a false correlation. The problem with these arguments as a whole is that they ascribe a two-dimensional zero-sum game to what is in fact a more complex issue with millions of variables involved. Remember that slogans exist as signaling for likeminded people and a publicity attractor to the rest of the crowd. They don't exist to persuade others of a point or provide a workable method for achieving an aim. The best way to obtain the latter is to present your case in full to a legal society.

by ixacto 5y ago

tines 5y ago

Too bad silence and violence almost rhyme, otherwise no one would have thought up this stupid phrase.

silicon2401 5y ago

Exemplary modern dialogue shut-down tactic. Don't question me, don't debate me, don't ask me questions, don't think. If you don't do exactly what I say is good, you're problematic. If you're not as extreme as me, you're as bad as the enemy. Things like this have made me lose faith in modern civilization; we're watching the beginning of a catastrophic downfall.

nerdponx 5y ago
Eh. First of all, "silence" historically has been and continues to be an avoidance tactic for dealing with racism. So there is truth in the saying. Second, the people taking this idea to extremes are a vocal minority. It's easy to see someone get canceled on Twitter and jump to the conclusion that the Red Army is right around the corner. I'm not that worried in the long run. Be understanding, but push back, and remember that some people will always be jerks no matter what the context or what ideals they find themselves aligned with.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  > "silence" historically has been and continues to be an avoidance tactic for dealing with racism. So there is truth in the saying. Freedom, like freedom of speech and freedom of association, includes the freedom to inaction and silence. Assuming the worst (that someone is racist if they don't tweet about racism every day etc) is toxic behavior
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  > Second, the people taking this idea to extremes are a vocal minority. But that's the problem, it's the extreme vocal minority who are calling for (and succeeding in) cancellations of perfectly reasonable individuals who want to speak at universities. See Jordan Peterson, etc.
lostmsu 5y ago
This statement is exactly true after removing "as extreme" too. These days anyone with a different opinion can be considered an enemy, extreme or not. Actually, when was it not a problem? I vaguely remember christianity's historical splits were caused by lesser disagreements (at least what was stated to be the cause).
- ixacto 5y ago
  It’s the exact same in-group/out-group tactic that the neo-conservative republicans were using in the early 2000s with terrorism e.g. “if you’re not with us then you’re with the terrorists” == “if you’re not out protesting/twittering/tumblring then you’re with the white supremacy patriarchy.” Actually quite interesting how you can use the same tactics in a totally different population and get people all riled up. Most likely just political maneuvering by parties to engage voters. Looking at it objectively I also didn’t see the media covering the Tusla massacre (as abhorrent as it was) nearly as much as they have been in the last couple days, which does lead to the suspicion that the coverage is politically motivated.

eplanit 5y ago

Further, willfully damaging or destroying physical buildings and "things" is _not_ violence. [1] https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/ny-times-reporter-says-destroying-property-is-not-violence/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/ny-times-reporter-says-destroy...

burkaman 5y ago

As you read in both the article and the policy, the word violence has been removed and clarified as "behavior which seriously threatens the health or safety of any person".

floren 5y ago
"This post makes me feel unsafe"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- burkaman 5y ago
  This isn't a social media policy, so I still don't understand why everyone's focusing on "posts", but sure, if they apply this clause to anything that makes anyone feel unsafe, that would be bad. I guess you win there. If you're able to come up with a useful set of rules that can't possibly be abused, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to see them.
CoastalCoder 5y ago
I wonder if they have the integrity to apply that to cigarette smoking, drinking alcohol, engaging in unprotected sex (while infectious with STD), or having a lifestyle that causes obesity.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Warning: Off-topic rabbit-hole follows. I've seen "silence is violence" a number of times, and regarded it (justifiably, I think) as manipulative BS. Then I saw one sign that said "silence = additional deaths". That one I found a bit harder to dismiss. If (if) you think the statistics indicate that blacks are getting killed at disproportional rates, and if you think that you can put enough political pressure on to change things, then silence is not direct violence, but it is letting things continue to happen the way they've been happening. It at least made me think, which "silence is violence" didn't.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
While that argument is more nuanced than "silence is violence", it has its own share of issues. Death is egalitarian but its judgement isn't based on Rawlsian principles. Rather, it is firmly staked in Darwinian ones. Suggesting one's "silence" or lack thereof has an effect on that is a false correlation. The problem with these arguments as a whole is that they ascribe a two-dimensional zero-sum game to what is in fact a more complex issue with millions of variables involved. Remember that slogans exist as signaling for likeminded people and a publicity attractor to the rest of the crowd. They don't exist to persuade others of a point or provide a workable method for achieving an aim. The best way to obtain the latter is to present your case in full to a legal society.