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The thought police strike again! More realistically the university is running brand protection...

by ixacto 5y ago

jonnycomputer 5y ago
well most employers can fire people at will. for any cause. and do. including for your twitter posts. its been state-sanctioned capitalist thought police for a while now..
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Students aren't employees, though. They're customers.
  - jonnycomputer 5y ago
    Students aren't customers either. If you took an apprenticeship, you wouldn't think you're a customer. If you took an internship, even if you had to pay for it, you wouldn't be a customer. Students are customers. They're students.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      In what sense are they not? They're paying money to the university, in order to receive services that the university offers.
      - jonnycomputer 5y ago
        In almost every sense that matters. The model that seems to underlay this idea is that in a financial transaction, one person is a customer, and other is the provider (of a service, or product, etc.). But not all financial transactions fit this mental model of what is a kind of social relationship. Suppose you go to Craigslist, and find that someone is selling their old bike. You give them a call, give them cash, and you get a bike. Were you their customer? Something doesn't fit. This is a one-off transaction, on each side. There is no "custom". But I don't want to argue the point, because there are other examples. Suppose you get the opportunity to pay for an internship at a prestigious lawfirm. You pay your $1000 bucks, and then you work for free for a few weeks. Are you their customer? Sure, there was a financial transaction, but the relationship isn't one of being a customer. Is it? Ok, suppose you are a plumber. Every few years you pay a fee to a certification board to keep your license. You also pay membership money to the Better Business Bureau. Are you customers to the certification board, or to the BBB? Doesn't seem like it to me. Students are students. That is the relationship they hold to schools. That there is also a financial transaction happening is incidental to the primary relationship. Indeed, for students who pay no money because everything is funded by grants, then the idea that students are customers breaks down further. I understand the temptation. It is a lot of money most people pay for an education. But students are not customers, and university degrees aren't products.

The thought police strike again! More realistically the university is running brand protection...

by ixacto 5y ago

The thought police strike again! More realistically the university is running brand protection...

well most employers can fire people at will. for any cause. and do. including for your twitter posts. its been state-sanctioned capitalist thought police for a while now..

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Students aren't employees, though. They're customers.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  Students aren't customers either. If you took an apprenticeship, you wouldn't think you're a customer. If you took an internship, even if you had to pay for it, you wouldn't be a customer. Students are customers. They're students.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    In what sense are they not? They're paying money to the university, in order to receive services that the university offers.
    - jonnycomputer 5y ago
      In almost every sense that matters. The model that seems to underlay this idea is that in a financial transaction, one person is a customer, and other is the provider (of a service, or product, etc.). But not all financial transactions fit this mental model of what is a kind of social relationship. Suppose you go to Craigslist, and find that someone is selling their old bike. You give them a call, give them cash, and you get a bike. Were you their customer? Something doesn't fit. This is a one-off transaction, on each side. There is no "custom". But I don't want to argue the point, because there are other examples. Suppose you get the opportunity to pay for an internship at a prestigious lawfirm. You pay your $1000 bucks, and then you work for free for a few weeks. Are you their customer? Sure, there was a financial transaction, but the relationship isn't one of being a customer. Is it? Ok, suppose you are a plumber. Every few years you pay a fee to a certification board to keep your license. You also pay membership money to the Better Business Bureau. Are you customers to the certification board, or to the BBB? Doesn't seem like it to me. Students are students. That is the relationship they hold to schools. That there is also a financial transaction happening is incidental to the primary relationship. Indeed, for students who pay no money because everything is funded by grants, then the idea that students are customers breaks down further. I understand the temptation. It is a lot of money most people pay for an education. But students are not customers, and university degrees aren't products.