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My UK Housing association sent all residents a harsh letter saying how nothing can be left in the hallway, no posters, notes or anything, as they contravene fir

by Zenst 5y ago

My UK Housing association sent all residents a harsh letter saying how nothing can be left in the hallway, no posters, notes or anything, as they contravene fire health and safety, so classed as a fire risk. They then month later put a cork notice board up which they litter with their propaganda (best way to describe the chaff they put on there and more ego promoting themselves type stuff, ergo my go to definition of it), all printed on paper. I have found many excel at finding excuses to not do something and very professional at shuffling issues about in the hope that they will be forgotten about though done in a way that their bureaucracy can say they did their job. In short many staff excel in such institutions excel at being seen to be doing their job over doing it and you quickly recognise the patterns and language having worked with politicians/Civil servants and know all the tricks - like sending a reply 1 minute before you leave the office and excels at email tennis. My favourite was them sending a letter saying they would take me to court for access as I had not had a gas safety check. Which given I had one a month ago prior and was still awaiting for a part, all covered and done by one of their contracted out service providers who had informed them and why my gas safety check had not been done. They then just said it was computer error, something which I found even more offensive than spending a month in the middle of winter without any heating. Heck, I've had two asbestos checks, because they lost the first one, and other silly appointments that needlessly happen. In total I end up taking a week of my year off to accommodate such silly checks, which remarkably can never be done in one day and always spread out over a couple of month on several says. That's in a good year if they all turn up, always one or two missed appointments. I've realised they only care about the money. Have drug dealers in your flat 24/7 for a month - they don't care. Yet if you are a few pound short on your rent account, they soon get on your case. Housing associations when you cut thru the PR operate akin to the worst of the corporate World with equally a level of bureaucracy that even Government's aspire too achieve.

CydeWeys 5y ago
> In total I end up taking a week of my year off to accommodate such silly checks, which remarkably can never be done in one day and always spread out over a couple of month on several says. Did you really need to take those days off? When my apartment management company needs access to my apartment for routine checks and maintenance, they just let me know ahead of time and then let themselves in (they have a key, of course). They come during the work day, when I'm not home. Well, that was true up until COVID anyway; I was actually home for the most recent plumbing adventure they were debugging in the bathroom.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  That depends on the country and specifics of housing associations. In my case, I've never lived in an apartment to which a third party had keys[0]. Even when renting, it was always the case that I could change the locks, and the owner / housing association would have to announce their intent to visit beforehand. Them just letting themselves in was unthinkable. Last time the housing association wanted to do something in my basement, they had to ask kindly to be let in[1]. I'm not sure, but this may even be prohibited by regulations at the national level. -- [0] - Discounting hotels, hostels, and that one time I interned abroad for a couple months. [1] - And then the people doing the work - exchanging heat pipes that happen to run by our basement cell - managed to cause theft of some of our items stored there (they probably left the items in question outside, and someone else took them), and then they've lost the keys.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
In your gas story, I'm guessing it wasn't even malice, just incompetence. I've learned to be defensive when dealing with HOAs, doctors and other kinds of bureaucracies, because they often make mistakes - which I have to fix, and to which they'll never, ever admit. It's always your fault, or the computer's fault, or someone else's fault - never the organization. For example, my wife recounts a recent checkup of our doctor in a specialty hospital, in a city 1.5h drive from where we live. In our kids' health card there was a referral document to another specialist in a different facility. The woman processing registration at the hospital just assumed that all papers loose inside the health card must be related to the current visit, and took them without saying anything. Through pure luck, my wife noticed the paper was missing and realized what must have happened - if not for that, we'd have to make another 3 hour round-trip just to get it[0] once we realized it's gone. The receptionist of course denied ever seeing that paper, up until turning around, noticing it on a stack of documents, and saying "ooops!". Or, the time where our local clinic misplaced half of my wife's medical documentation, and proceeded to claim it never existed in the first place. We had to threaten them with legal action for somebody there to actually look for it, and then they quickly found it in another file (I think in mine). I have plenty more of such stories - from public and private, big and small bureaucracies alike. Always the same story. The concept of them making a mistake doesn't even compute for them. I've learned to run my own "post-condition checks" on every bureaucratic interaction. I watch where they put the documents. I ask if the result is in the system. I call to check my request is actually being processed. And for anything done remotely, I try to generate paper trail. Documents go by most expensive tracked postal delivery, with both SMS and paper delivery receipts. Etc. -- [0] - Or maybe, after enough begging and praying, someone would give us a duplicate. Who knows. The transition into era of digital referrals in Poland is messy, and hasn't completed yet. Some facilities still insist on original paper documents.
ethbr0 5y ago
> They then month later put a cork notice board up Why don't you handle it the same way we did at university? Make it disappear one night. And when another takes its place, make that one disappear too. Or when a table is removed, another one appears. Who did this? No one knows. When was it done? No one knows. Did anyone see anything? No one ever sees anything. At the end of the day, you live there 24/7. Management, doesn't. That's a lot of 3:45am's...
- Zenst 5y ago
  Generally a good idea, however the risk/rewards does not pan out in later life and seen people kicked out of Uni for what was a silly in the spirit of the group moment prank. So you find a balance, compromise and if any of the drawing pins get knocked due too it's placement and fall upon the floor I remove them for health and safety reasons, Now why don't I pin it back in the board, well that board is not my property and at a structure level of the board, albeit cork, would still leave a trace of sort and would technically be damage towards housing property. So I recycle those health and safety risks and avoid damaging the property of the housing association. Coz eventually there gets a stage in which there are no drawing pins and makes it hard for papers to stay up. This and paper litter in the hallways is dangerous and we had a letter about that, so again, I recycle as I'm a good person. In short, you can't beat the system, you can sometimes bend it, but you can sure use it's bureaucracy against itself and have a less stressful life. Though the term, spirit of the law and letter of the law can be equally applied to rules.

by Zenst 5y ago

CydeWeys 5y ago

> In total I end up taking a week of my year off to accommodate such silly checks, which remarkably can never be done in one day and always spread out over a couple of month on several says. Did you really need to take those days off? When my apartment management company needs access to my apartment for routine checks and maintenance, they just let me know ahead of time and then let themselves in (they have a key, of course). They come during the work day, when I'm not home. Well, that was true up until COVID anyway; I was actually home for the most recent plumbing adventure they were debugging in the bathroom.

TeMPOraL 5y ago
That depends on the country and specifics of housing associations. In my case, I've never lived in an apartment to which a third party had keys[0]. Even when renting, it was always the case that I could change the locks, and the owner / housing association would have to announce their intent to visit beforehand. Them just letting themselves in was unthinkable. Last time the housing association wanted to do something in my basement, they had to ask kindly to be let in[1]. I'm not sure, but this may even be prohibited by regulations at the national level. -- [0] - Discounting hotels, hostels, and that one time I interned abroad for a couple months. [1] - And then the people doing the work - exchanging heat pipes that happen to run by our basement cell - managed to cause theft of some of our items stored there (they probably left the items in question outside, and someone else took them), and then they've lost the keys.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

In your gas story, I'm guessing it wasn't even malice, just incompetence. I've learned to be defensive when dealing with HOAs, doctors and other kinds of bureaucracies, because they often make mistakes - which I have to fix, and to which they'll never, ever admit. It's always your fault, or the computer's fault, or someone else's fault - never the organization. For example, my wife recounts a recent checkup of our doctor in a specialty hospital, in a city 1.5h drive from where we live. In our kids' health card there was a referral document to another specialist in a different facility. The woman processing registration at the hospital just assumed that all papers loose inside the health card must be related to the current visit, and took them without saying anything. Through pure luck, my wife noticed the paper was missing and realized what must have happened - if not for that, we'd have to make another 3 hour round-trip just to get it[0] once we realized it's gone. The receptionist of course denied ever seeing that paper, up until turning around, noticing it on a stack of documents, and saying "ooops!". Or, the time where our local clinic misplaced half of my wife's medical documentation, and proceeded to claim it never existed in the first place. We had to threaten them with legal action for somebody there to actually look for it, and then they quickly found it in another file (I think in mine). I have plenty more of such stories - from public and private, big and small bureaucracies alike. Always the same story. The concept of them making a mistake doesn't even compute for them. I've learned to run my own "post-condition checks" on every bureaucratic interaction. I watch where they put the documents. I ask if the result is in the system. I call to check my request is actually being processed. And for anything done remotely, I try to generate paper trail. Documents go by most expensive tracked postal delivery, with both SMS and paper delivery receipts. Etc. -- [0] - Or maybe, after enough begging and praying, someone would give us a duplicate. Who knows. The transition into era of digital referrals in Poland is messy, and hasn't completed yet. Some facilities still insist on original paper documents.

ethbr0 5y ago

> They then month later put a cork notice board up Why don't you handle it the same way we did at university? Make it disappear one night. And when another takes its place, make that one disappear too. Or when a table is removed, another one appears. Who did this? No one knows. When was it done? No one knows. Did anyone see anything? No one ever sees anything. At the end of the day, you live there 24/7. Management, doesn't. That's a lot of 3:45am's...

Zenst 5y ago
Generally a good idea, however the risk/rewards does not pan out in later life and seen people kicked out of Uni for what was a silly in the spirit of the group moment prank. So you find a balance, compromise and if any of the drawing pins get knocked due too it's placement and fall upon the floor I remove them for health and safety reasons, Now why don't I pin it back in the board, well that board is not my property and at a structure level of the board, albeit cork, would still leave a trace of sort and would technically be damage towards housing property. So I recycle those health and safety risks and avoid damaging the property of the housing association. Coz eventually there gets a stage in which there are no drawing pins and makes it hard for papers to stay up. This and paper litter in the hallways is dangerous and we had a letter about that, so again, I recycle as I'm a good person. In short, you can't beat the system, you can sometimes bend it, but you can sure use it's bureaucracy against itself and have a less stressful life. Though the term, spirit of the law and letter of the law can be equally applied to rules.