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> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results

> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent? I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society or conducive to high levels of human accomplishment. Striving for excellence will inevitably produce winners and losers, but if you don't do it, you just end up with mediocrity stew. I'm not going to cut off the right side of the distribution of human accomplishment on the say-so of people who have some weird ideological commitment to human sameness.

gambiting 5y ago
>>Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? No, but it's exactly why US is far behind EU in healthcare, education, equality, social mobility and a number of other social metrics that matter to you know - normal people on the street, not traders on wall street. GDP doesn't tell the whole story. >>Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent Because US is home to companies that pay ridiculous salaries which make it worth moving to the US for, despite all the other downsides. You're going to get just as good education at many world class universities around the world, but if your goal is extreme salary then US education system gives you a leg up at the start - that's why. Not because there's anything unique or super special about US. >>I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society or conducive to high levels of human accomplishment. That's absolutely not the idea, I think you misunderstood me. The point is to give everyone the same chances. In many other countries it doesn't matter if you're from a rich family or a poor one - it doesn't give you any extra leverage when applying to universities. There is no educational debt to deal with. A medical condition will not put you in any debt whatsoever. Look at it as a gift to the society, to every child and every adult in the country - if they do nothing with it, that is their choice. But if they take these opportunities they can achieve incredible things, exactly that pinnacle of human accomplishment that you're talking about. That's freedom, not the American freedom that's tied to worship of money.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  In America, everyone has the same chance already, at least to a close approximation. It's just not logically valid to look at unequal outcomes and conclude that not everyone had the same chance, but that's what half this thread is doing. Whatever the US is doing, it works for producing prosperity and innovation. Whatever the EU is doing doesn't work to produce that. Sure, people there are comfortable, but should comfort alone be the goal of human society? I don't think so.
  - Aken 5y ago
    >> Whatever the US is doing, it works for producing prosperity and innovation. For some, at the expense of others.
    - tastyfreeze 5y ago
      That is simply not true. One person's success does not take away opportunity from others.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        No one is attacking personal success here - it's important and should be celebrated. But the opportunities in the US are absolutely not equal, far from it.
        tastyfreeze 5y ago
        Any person in the US can improve their lot in life. Nobody said it is easy. Success is hard work with a measure of luck. But, it is absolutely possible to go from living on the streets to living in a mansion in a lifetime. How is that not equal opportunity?
        gambiting 5y ago
        I cannot stop myself but flip this around - how can you possibly call this an equal opportunity? It's like having a race where some people start 100m behind others and saying "well if they try hard enough, they can still win! The race itself is fair after all!" >>Success is hard work with a measure of luck. Of course ,but the American system is 1) ignoring that some people started at a much worse position in life and expecting them to "just work harder" 2) assuming that any problem you might encounter in your life is of your own doing, after all if you get into an accident and end up in lifetime medical debt.....well you shouldn't have gotten into an accident, right? Or again - just work hard to pay it back and you're fine? After all it is possible. Yes, and winning lottery is technically possible but I don't think buying Lotto tickets is a valid way of living your life either.

gambiting 5y ago

>>Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? No, but it's exactly why US is far behind EU in healthcare, education, equality, social mobility and a number of other social metrics that matter to you know - normal people on the street, not traders on wall street. GDP doesn't tell the whole story. >>Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent Because US is home to companies that pay ridiculous salaries which make it worth moving to the US for, despite all the other downsides. You're going to get just as good education at many world class universities around the world, but if your goal is extreme salary then US education system gives you a leg up at the start - that's why. Not because there's anything unique or super special about US. >>I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society or conducive to high levels of human accomplishment. That's absolutely not the idea, I think you misunderstood me. The point is to give everyone the same chances. In many other countries it doesn't matter if you're from a rich family or a poor one - it doesn't give you any extra leverage when applying to universities. There is no educational debt to deal with. A medical condition will not put you in any debt whatsoever. Look at it as a gift to the society, to every child and every adult in the country - if they do nothing with it, that is their choice. But if they take these opportunities they can achieve incredible things, exactly that pinnacle of human accomplishment that you're talking about. That's freedom, not the American freedom that's tied to worship of money.

quotemstr 5y ago
In America, everyone has the same chance already, at least to a close approximation. It's just not logically valid to look at unequal outcomes and conclude that not everyone had the same chance, but that's what half this thread is doing. Whatever the US is doing, it works for producing prosperity and innovation. Whatever the EU is doing doesn't work to produce that. Sure, people there are comfortable, but should comfort alone be the goal of human society? I don't think so.
- Aken 5y ago
  >> Whatever the US is doing, it works for producing prosperity and innovation. For some, at the expense of others.
  - tastyfreeze 5y ago
    That is simply not true. One person's success does not take away opportunity from others.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      No one is attacking personal success here - it's important and should be celebrated. But the opportunities in the US are absolutely not equal, far from it.
      - tastyfreeze 5y ago
        Any person in the US can improve their lot in life. Nobody said it is easy. Success is hard work with a measure of luck. But, it is absolutely possible to go from living on the streets to living in a mansion in a lifetime. How is that not equal opportunity?
        gambiting 5y ago
        I cannot stop myself but flip this around - how can you possibly call this an equal opportunity? It's like having a race where some people start 100m behind others and saying "well if they try hard enough, they can still win! The race itself is fair after all!" >>Success is hard work with a measure of luck. Of course ,but the American system is 1) ignoring that some people started at a much worse position in life and expecting them to "just work harder" 2) assuming that any problem you might encounter in your life is of your own doing, after all if you get into an accident and end up in lifetime medical debt.....well you shouldn't have gotten into an accident, right? Or again - just work hard to pay it back and you're fine? After all it is possible. Yes, and winning lottery is technically possible but I don't think buying Lotto tickets is a valid way of living your life either.