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I regularly go out and have picnics with my wife and have never once been harassed about sharing a bottle of wine with our meal. My family goes camping over Mem

I regularly go out and have picnics with my wife and have never once been harassed about sharing a bottle of wine with our meal. My family goes camping over Memorial Day weekend to state parks all over Ohio and it’s pretty common to have alcoholic drinks but, as long as you’re not bothering anyone, nobody cares. We’ve been doing this for as long as I’ve been alive and not once has anyone cared in 30+ years. The US has open container laws but they primarily exist for a pretense to arrest people for being disorderly, in my experience. Edit: The person I’m responding to isn’t even in the US how is what they are saying more valid then my actual life experiences in the US?

kbenson 5y ago
There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Most places I know of in the U.S. if you're walking down the street and a cop sees you with a beer, they'll make an issue about it. The thing is, it's not always super obvious, and they don't bother to look too close usually if they don't have a reason to. I don't think this is the case in poorer communities. Not only are the police more likely to be looking closer, but the situation of the people involved sometimes means they're more likely to be outside in a shared location instead of inside (smaller dwellings, shared living, etc), and open container laws are used to exert control over this populace. Put in much simpler terms, I wouldn't be too afraid of walking down my street with an open beer if I felt like it, because police driving down the street are rare and unlikely to decide I'm an issue. I neither of those things are true to the same degree just 4-5 blocks away from me though, and I wouldn't want to risk my luck doing the same thing on a street there.
- tekknik 5y ago
  > There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    > People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it. > Where’s your evidence for any of this? I stated an observation based on my own experience, and why I believe it. The evidence for my belief is my own observations, which were explained. > In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach. Parks and beaches will be policed differently, as public gathering places. I wasn't talking about those, even if the comment I was replying to was, I was referring to the more general topic of open containers in public in general, which is why I mentioned my street and a street a few blocks away. It's obvious you have strong feelings on this topic (or another topic that you want this to stand in for), from both the way you approached the conversation and how you pigeonholed my statement into some other narrative that it wasn't intended to apply to. I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for?
    - tekknik 5y ago
      > I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for? What I'm going for is a stop to the race baiting. You have no evidence, just "feels", and we're now supposed to change society as a result. Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?
      - kbenson 5y ago
        That would sound a lot more sincere if it made any sense. Let me spell it out for you, since apparently the actual content of my original comment and my note about how you seemed to be viewing it as "another topic that you want this to stand in for" were not clear enough: I said nothing about race. I wasn't intending to say anything about race. I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. I was making a case for poor communities, of any color. Honestly, your response makes no sense. Given I expressed how I thought I would be treated differently based on the area I was in (that was the only difference in my comparison), no matter what race you assume I am, I clearly wasn't basing the comparison on race. Because I wasn't making a case about race, but about class. > Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more? I wasn't presenting facts. I was presenting experiential testimony, very clearly as opinion, in case that made people think about the issue in a bit more depth. If I was presenting factual evidence, I would have looked up and presented that evident as references. I stand by my track record of doing this, and requesting it when people make factual assertions. > Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. That's very meta.
Sophistifunk 5y ago
Firstly, I'm clearly not talking about camping. I'm talking about parks in the suburbs and cities. Secondly, "having a wine with my wife" is treated very differently from "having some beers with my fellow twenty-somethings," without needing to bring in the extra baggage that would be included if those twenty-somethings happen to be black. I'm sure I can drink a wine in the park with my wife too, now that I'm old. Doesn't make it OK the way the police treat the young and/or brown. And no, for what it's worth, it's not as bad in the US as it is here, because Americans (generally) respect the freedoms of others much more than Australians do. Which is why in my experience the subsequent dickheaddery isn't as prevalent or extreme there either.
- renlo 5y ago
  People in the US drink in the parks, the suburbs and the cities, especially in the evenings. The care and discretion one needs to take is proportional to how much free time the cops in the area have and circumstance / setting. You can drink openly at the beach. If in a small town park, you'd want to either have the alcohol in an unmarked bottle, a soda can, or a brown paper bag. In the cities the cops are typically concerned with real crime that they do not care and one can almost openly drink. In some areas one can legally openly drink, like in Las Vegas. Access to alcohol is a separate thing altogether, and is freely available depending on county and state, but, in the areas where the majority of Americans live (ie, not Utah, or similar), it's very easy to get alcohol and it's not seen as a bad thing. The issue is that the US is so large and disparate that everyone's experience will be slightly different, and, no offense, but your opinion of drinking culture in the US seems off base and I get the sense you don't know what you're talking about.
  - swensel 5y ago
    > You can drink openly at the beach. In CA at least, drinking at most beaches is not legal: https://beachlifeexpert.com/beaches/alcohol-guide-california-beaches/ https://beachlifeexpert.com/beaches/alcohol-guide-california...
    - my_usernam3 5y ago
jmckib 5y ago
This likely depends on what state and what park you're in. I've travelled the US in an RV and I've definitely seen people scolded for simply enjoying a glass of wine in a state park. Lots of parks also have huge signs all over the place warning that alcohol is not allowed, so presumably they are taking it seriously.

kbenson 5y ago

There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Most places I know of in the U.S. if you're walking down the street and a cop sees you with a beer, they'll make an issue about it. The thing is, it's not always super obvious, and they don't bother to look too close usually if they don't have a reason to. I don't think this is the case in poorer communities. Not only are the police more likely to be looking closer, but the situation of the people involved sometimes means they're more likely to be outside in a shared location instead of inside (smaller dwellings, shared living, etc), and open container laws are used to exert control over this populace. Put in much simpler terms, I wouldn't be too afraid of walking down my street with an open beer if I felt like it, because police driving down the street are rare and unlikely to decide I'm an issue. I neither of those things are true to the same degree just 4-5 blocks away from me though, and I wouldn't want to risk my luck doing the same thing on a street there.

tekknik 5y ago
> There's a whole different side of this your comment isn't really addressing, which is how these laws apply to poor communities. Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.
- kbenson 5y ago
  > People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it. > Where’s your evidence for any of this? I stated an observation based on my own experience, and why I believe it. The evidence for my belief is my own observations, which were explained. > In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach. Parks and beaches will be policed differently, as public gathering places. I wasn't talking about those, even if the comment I was replying to was, I was referring to the more general topic of open containers in public in general, which is why I mentioned my street and a street a few blocks away. It's obvious you have strong feelings on this topic (or another topic that you want this to stand in for), from both the way you approached the conversation and how you pigeonholed my statement into some other narrative that it wasn't intended to apply to. I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for?
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for? What I'm going for is a stop to the race baiting. You have no evidence, just "feels", and we're now supposed to change society as a result. Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?
    - kbenson 5y ago
      That would sound a lot more sincere if it made any sense. Let me spell it out for you, since apparently the actual content of my original comment and my note about how you seemed to be viewing it as "another topic that you want this to stand in for" were not clear enough: I said nothing about race. I wasn't intending to say anything about race. I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. I was making a case for poor communities, of any color. Honestly, your response makes no sense. Given I expressed how I thought I would be treated differently based on the area I was in (that was the only difference in my comparison), no matter what race you assume I am, I clearly wasn't basing the comparison on race. Because I wasn't making a case about race, but about class. > Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more? I wasn't presenting facts. I was presenting experiential testimony, very clearly as opinion, in case that made people think about the issue in a bit more depth. If I was presenting factual evidence, I would have looked up and presented that evident as references. I stand by my track record of doing this, and requesting it when people make factual assertions. > Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. That's very meta.

Sophistifunk 5y ago

Firstly, I'm clearly not talking about camping. I'm talking about parks in the suburbs and cities. Secondly, "having a wine with my wife" is treated very differently from "having some beers with my fellow twenty-somethings," without needing to bring in the extra baggage that would be included if those twenty-somethings happen to be black. I'm sure I can drink a wine in the park with my wife too, now that I'm old. Doesn't make it OK the way the police treat the young and/or brown. And no, for what it's worth, it's not as bad in the US as it is here, because Americans (generally) respect the freedoms of others much more than Australians do. Which is why in my experience the subsequent dickheaddery isn't as prevalent or extreme there either.

renlo 5y ago
People in the US drink in the parks, the suburbs and the cities, especially in the evenings. The care and discretion one needs to take is proportional to how much free time the cops in the area have and circumstance / setting. You can drink openly at the beach. If in a small town park, you'd want to either have the alcohol in an unmarked bottle, a soda can, or a brown paper bag. In the cities the cops are typically concerned with real crime that they do not care and one can almost openly drink. In some areas one can legally openly drink, like in Las Vegas. Access to alcohol is a separate thing altogether, and is freely available depending on county and state, but, in the areas where the majority of Americans live (ie, not Utah, or similar), it's very easy to get alcohol and it's not seen as a bad thing. The issue is that the US is so large and disparate that everyone's experience will be slightly different, and, no offense, but your opinion of drinking culture in the US seems off base and I get the sense you don't know what you're talking about.
- swensel 5y ago
  > You can drink openly at the beach. In CA at least, drinking at most beaches is not legal: https://beachlifeexpert.com/beaches/alcohol-guide-california-beaches/ https://beachlifeexpert.com/beaches/alcohol-guide-california...
  - my_usernam3 5y ago

jmckib 5y ago

This likely depends on what state and what park you're in. I've travelled the US in an RV and I've definitely seen people scolded for simply enjoying a glass of wine in a state park. Lots of parks also have huge signs all over the place warning that alcohol is not allowed, so presumably they are taking it seriously.