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> everything outside the actual text file has completely different controls Not sure what you mean by this > lose most of the seamless interoperability with

> everything outside the actual text file has completely different controls Not sure what you mean by this > lose most of the seamless interoperability with other terminal tools It's not like VIM is more or less interoperable than Emacs is with other shell tools. They live in their own space, you don't (often) pipe stuff in or out of it. Though there's not much to read into my comment, it was an attempt of being witty, but evil mode is the best VIM implementation found in any editor and just for the fact that Elisp >> Vimscript, makes evil mode a better environment than VIM itself.

apocolyps6 5y ago
> They live in their own space, you don't (often) pipe stuff in or out of it. Well that's not true at least for vim. : read !FOO will run the FOO command and read the results back into the current buffer. I usually search my codebase by reading the results of a grep into a temporary buffer and 'gf'ing to the appropriate file
- rhabarba 5y ago
  There isn’t much Vim can do which ed cannot, though.
  - gnubison 5y ago
    Except for some extra trivialities, like everything that isn't an ex command (and some that are).
- c2the3rd 5y ago
  C-u M-! does the exact same thing in Emacs.
  - flukus 5y ago
    But that goes back to the original point they made, everything outside of the actual text editing and you're in EMACS land with all of it's controls. Even with something as complete as spacemacs, the default landing page when you open it has different key bindings.
- soraminazuki 5y ago
  As a Vim user who uses Emacs for note taking, I can guarantee Evil mode does far better at emulating Vim than you give credit for. In fact, the example you provided works just as well with Evil. The only built-in editing command which I notice missing from Vim is reliable undo/redo, which is sadly a fundamental Emacs limitation and a deal breaker. Apart from that, it's remarkably well-made.
  - motform 5y ago
    Emacs 28 is finally adding modern undo-redo: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2645ae1222db1df270276b227e5102884466ecb0 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2645ae... Recent versions of evil have the option of choosing undo backend, and I have found the new buildin one impeccable thus far.
    - soraminazuki 5y ago
      My understanding is that it's still not as good as Vim's builtin undo though. Vim has a persistent undo tree that consistently works and doesn't confuse users. AFAIK the best attempt at it in Emacs is the undotree package, but it unfortunately has a reputation of being unreliable.
  - apocolyps6 5y ago
    I've made no statement about emacs or evil mode. I was just correcting the user I was responding to about vim having interoperability with the rest of unix
- lelanthran 5y ago
  > I usually search my codebase by reading the results of a grep into a temporary buffer and 'gf'ing to the appropriate file I used to do that too, I now use the Ack plugin which is almost instantaneous on a codebase that grep used to take 2s-3s long to search. The speed isn't what matters though, it's the fact that Ack only searches source code, not all files so my results is less polluted with irrelevant matches.
  - apocolyps6 5y ago
    my grep of choice is `ag "searchterm" -G .py` or the like. I don't notice any delay, and I'm specifying the file extension
umanwizard 5y ago
> They live in their own space, you don't (often) pipe stuff in or out of it. ...huh? I pipe things into vim absolutely all the time. I don’t mean to be rude but this is exactly the sort of thing OP meant by “people recommending evil don’t understand why people like vi(m)”. whatever_command | vim - and edit the results as needed.
- acomar 5y ago
  and in emacs you can just redirect the command output to a buffer. or honestly, 99% of the time, I don't even bother redirecting and muck with the output directly in the eshell buffer.
- 1_player 5y ago
  No reason to be rude, I have used VIM for 15 years, I know how it works. Yes you can pipe stuff in and out, you can do in Emacs as well. My point being that VIM isn't better than Emacs on this aspect, and they're not like other shell tools where COMMON usage is by piping stuff in and out; they're not like cat, more, wc. They live in their own space.

apocolyps6 5y ago

> They live in their own space, you don't (often) pipe stuff in or out of it. Well that's not true at least for vim. : read !FOO will run the FOO command and read the results back into the current buffer. I usually search my codebase by reading the results of a grep into a temporary buffer and 'gf'ing to the appropriate file

rhabarba 5y ago
There isn’t much Vim can do which ed cannot, though.
- gnubison 5y ago
  Except for some extra trivialities, like everything that isn't an ex command (and some that are).
c2the3rd 5y ago
C-u M-! does the exact same thing in Emacs.
- flukus 5y ago
  But that goes back to the original point they made, everything outside of the actual text editing and you're in EMACS land with all of it's controls. Even with something as complete as spacemacs, the default landing page when you open it has different key bindings.
soraminazuki 5y ago
As a Vim user who uses Emacs for note taking, I can guarantee Evil mode does far better at emulating Vim than you give credit for. In fact, the example you provided works just as well with Evil. The only built-in editing command which I notice missing from Vim is reliable undo/redo, which is sadly a fundamental Emacs limitation and a deal breaker. Apart from that, it's remarkably well-made.
- motform 5y ago
  Emacs 28 is finally adding modern undo-redo: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2645ae1222db1df270276b227e5102884466ecb0 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=2645ae... Recent versions of evil have the option of choosing undo backend, and I have found the new buildin one impeccable thus far.
  - soraminazuki 5y ago
    My understanding is that it's still not as good as Vim's builtin undo though. Vim has a persistent undo tree that consistently works and doesn't confuse users. AFAIK the best attempt at it in Emacs is the undotree package, but it unfortunately has a reputation of being unreliable.
- apocolyps6 5y ago
  I've made no statement about emacs or evil mode. I was just correcting the user I was responding to about vim having interoperability with the rest of unix
lelanthran 5y ago
> I usually search my codebase by reading the results of a grep into a temporary buffer and 'gf'ing to the appropriate file I used to do that too, I now use the Ack plugin which is almost instantaneous on a codebase that grep used to take 2s-3s long to search. The speed isn't what matters though, it's the fact that Ack only searches source code, not all files so my results is less polluted with irrelevant matches.
- apocolyps6 5y ago
  my grep of choice is `ag "searchterm" -G .py` or the like. I don't notice any delay, and I'm specifying the file extension

umanwizard 5y ago

> They live in their own space, you don't (often) pipe stuff in or out of it. ...huh? I pipe things into vim absolutely all the time. I don’t mean to be rude but this is exactly the sort of thing OP meant by “people recommending evil don’t understand why people like vi(m)”. whatever_command | vim - and edit the results as needed.

acomar 5y ago
and in emacs you can just redirect the command output to a buffer. or honestly, 99% of the time, I don't even bother redirecting and muck with the output directly in the eshell buffer.
1_player 5y ago
No reason to be rude, I have used VIM for 15 years, I know how it works. Yes you can pipe stuff in and out, you can do in Emacs as well. My point being that VIM isn't better than Emacs on this aspect, and they're not like other shell tools where COMMON usage is by piping stuff in and out; they're not like cat, more, wc. They live in their own space.