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> Seems like a genuine customer problem. If you want to set up smart lights through your back yard, or a smart sensor at the edge of your driver, they might not

> Seems like a genuine customer problem. If you want to set up smart lights through your back yard, or a smart sensor at the edge of your driver, they might not have WiFi connectivity to the rest of your house. That sounds like a "you" problem, not a "me" problem. If "you" are setting up smart devices where "you" don't have connectivity, "you" should provide the connectivity, not "me". (Note: I don't have a problem with devices piggy backing on/extending their owner's network). TFA mentions possible issues with FTC and TOS violations with customers' ISPs. But what about overages? Who's liable for those? Is there going to be a metered breakdown of network usage? Will AMZN cover costs of overages due to neighbor usage? What about potential liability issues? Infosec issues? This just sounds like a too easy setup for a class action lawsuit.

barbazoo 5y ago
I agree. And what, you're gonna rely on some neighbor's AMZN device proxying the internet for you? I hope the availability of that "smart" sensor or whatever isn't too important.
- Spivak 5y ago
  It’s not an Internet proxy. There is so much misinformation about this it’s nuts. It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API. It’s not giving random devices access to your network.
  - roughly 5y ago
    > It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API Except Alexa is extensible, so you can't draw any kind of barrier around what's actually being done using that network.
  - thayne 5y ago
    And IoT has a flawless record of security. There's no way someone could find a vulnerability in a device connected to a sidewalk network. Oh... wait.
  - freeone3000 5y ago
    The IoT devices are exactly the ones I don't want on the network!
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Am I misunderstanding? Some device belonging to property X uses the internet connection of property Y to connect to the internet to talk to AWS. Isn't that what's happening? Or is there some kind of VPN being used here?
Spivak 5y ago
Can Apple devices use your mobile data to participate in the FindMy network? This seems like a weird line to draw.
- socialist_coder 5y ago
  The apple airtag devices do the same thing. They can get online via any apple device. Not sure if that applies to other FindMy devices though. I hope it does =)
  - alsetmusic 5y ago
    > They can get online via any apple device. Airtags don’t “get online.” Apple devices take note of the Airtag’s identifying characteristics (I don’t know how this is defined) and report back to Apple having been in proximity to them. They are “dumb” with respect to the internet. Just Bluetooth beacons.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      Isn't that effectively the same thing, though? The airtags are useful because they cause other people's devices to transmit their location.
      - mike_d 5y ago
        Apple sells this as a feature on new phones (which people implicitly associate as a communications device). Lights and doorbells are supposed to be dumb devices, not network gateways for the general public. It would be like Ford announcing that they had been putting USB ports in the bumper of every car for the last 5 years, and starting today you can walk up to any random persons car and charge your phone.
        scoopertrooper 5y ago
        So you're saying the doorbell that uses machine learning to detect people and objects and the send me videos of them is a dumb device? I'd love to see a smart one!
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
"You can help me, I can help you". My smart lights work where I don't have connectivity, but you do, and your tile tracker works where you don't have connectivity, but I do. It's really quite similar to Apple's Find My network. I just wish this was going to some open collective where everyone could benefit, rather than just Amazon customers...
- mike_d 5y ago
  Helium is exactly what you describe. People deploy APs that provide coverage and in turn get fractions of pennies for transferring data from random peoples devices. https://www.helium.com/ https://www.helium.com/
  - ThatPlayer 5y ago
    I've seen this and it looks interesting. A true offline mesh large-scale network would probably not be feasible, so some kind of authority would be required. And crypto does seem to work for that to keep it decentralized, but I'm not sure I like their implementation. I've got a few LoRa radio kits and Raspberry Pis, but am not allowed to setup my own node. Rather I have to purchase one from them.
- katbyte 5y ago
  Apple's Find My network is far far more limited in scope
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  I think the real value is for the devices that can move, such as that Tile. You have practical way of ensuring they don't move into a dead spot, and for trackers no way to ensure they don't go beyond range.

barbazoo 5y ago

I agree. And what, you're gonna rely on some neighbor's AMZN device proxying the internet for you? I hope the availability of that "smart" sensor or whatever isn't too important.

Spivak 5y ago
It’s not an Internet proxy. There is so much misinformation about this it’s nuts. It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API. It’s not giving random devices access to your network.
- roughly 5y ago
  > It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API Except Alexa is extensible, so you can't draw any kind of barrier around what's actually being done using that network.
- thayne 5y ago
  And IoT has a flawless record of security. There's no way someone could find a vulnerability in a device connected to a sidewalk network. Oh... wait.
- freeone3000 5y ago
  The IoT devices are exactly the ones I don't want on the network!
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Am I misunderstanding? Some device belonging to property X uses the internet connection of property Y to connect to the internet to talk to AWS. Isn't that what's happening? Or is there some kind of VPN being used here?

Spivak 5y ago

Can Apple devices use your mobile data to participate in the FindMy network? This seems like a weird line to draw.

socialist_coder 5y ago
The apple airtag devices do the same thing. They can get online via any apple device. Not sure if that applies to other FindMy devices though. I hope it does =)
- alsetmusic 5y ago
  > They can get online via any apple device. Airtags don’t “get online.” Apple devices take note of the Airtag’s identifying characteristics (I don’t know how this is defined) and report back to Apple having been in proximity to them. They are “dumb” with respect to the internet. Just Bluetooth beacons.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Isn't that effectively the same thing, though? The airtags are useful because they cause other people's devices to transmit their location.
    - mike_d 5y ago
      Apple sells this as a feature on new phones (which people implicitly associate as a communications device). Lights and doorbells are supposed to be dumb devices, not network gateways for the general public. It would be like Ford announcing that they had been putting USB ports in the bumper of every car for the last 5 years, and starting today you can walk up to any random persons car and charge your phone.
      - scoopertrooper 5y ago
        So you're saying the doorbell that uses machine learning to detect people and objects and the send me videos of them is a dumb device? I'd love to see a smart one!

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

"You can help me, I can help you". My smart lights work where I don't have connectivity, but you do, and your tile tracker works where you don't have connectivity, but I do. It's really quite similar to Apple's Find My network. I just wish this was going to some open collective where everyone could benefit, rather than just Amazon customers...

mike_d 5y ago
Helium is exactly what you describe. People deploy APs that provide coverage and in turn get fractions of pennies for transferring data from random peoples devices. https://www.helium.com/ https://www.helium.com/
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  I've seen this and it looks interesting. A true offline mesh large-scale network would probably not be feasible, so some kind of authority would be required. And crypto does seem to work for that to keep it decentralized, but I'm not sure I like their implementation. I've got a few LoRa radio kits and Raspberry Pis, but am not allowed to setup my own node. Rather I have to purchase one from them.
katbyte 5y ago
Apple's Find My network is far far more limited in scope
LorenPechtel 5y ago
I think the real value is for the devices that can move, such as that Tile. You have practical way of ensuring they don't move into a dead spot, and for trackers no way to ensure they don't go beyond range.