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Your intent is to drop US missiles or troops on Russia-Eastern Europe/China-SE Asia? That may have different outcomes than what you're imagining.

by zdkl 5y ago

nyc_pizzadev 5y ago
Right, that would be war. My understanding is that the gov has more covert methods... We hunted enemies before in other nations with some success.
- f38zf5vdt 5y ago
  Why not? $40 trillion dollars in weapons spending would easily save $10 billion dollars it would cost to hire security professionals on an annual salary to patch software and ensure that intrusion was more difficult.
- Raidion 5y ago
  This is exactly what they're doing now, they're just doing it with law enforcement agencies and not military. Military is honestly going to be worse at all of this, as they don't have the investigative capacity. This also ducks the very thorny political problems where Ukraine (never mind Russia!)are NOT going to allow US military involvement in domestic affairs, but do have agreements with Interpol that make this possible. Nobody wants extrajudicial military extraction squads acting on their turf. I'm sure the various 3 letter agencies (NSA, CIA, etc) are already involved to a degree that's not publicly known.
- patrickdavey 5y ago
  Are you suggesting hunting enemies in countries like Russia/China is going to go down well? How would you feel if they decided to declare some enemies on US soil and start hunting them on your patch? Unless your assumption is that Russia/China would agree to the hunting of course, but that does seem unlikely.
  - matz1 5y ago
    >Are you suggesting hunting enemies in countries like Russia/China is going to go down well? Anything has risk of course, any hunting need be covert and expertly done. >How would you feel if they decided to declare some enemies on US soil and start hunting them on your patch? I would assume they already did that.
- sorokod 5y ago
  Military is a pretty blunt instrument, also, the US government is not the only government that has military and "more covert methods".
dcolkitt 5y ago
There's a continuum of responses existing between "do nothing" and "drop missiles". For example, it'd probably be relatively easy for special forces to assassinate key personnel, even deep within enemy territory.
- babelfish 5y ago
  Do you really see nothing wrong with the US military carrying out assassinations of foreign nationals, in foreign territory, on behalf of private companies who can't be bothered to just invest in a decent security team?
  - yaw11 5y ago
    The vast majority of participants on this forum work in an environment where the shelf of footguns and gotchas and stupid legacy cruft that is modern software development inherently makes sense. Anyone fucking that house of cards up gets attention not because of the state of modern software development that led them here, but because clearly something is wrong with the external world and that should be handled with cops or whatever the next step after that is. It is in no way an indictment of modern software as practiced, from toolchain on up. Reminder: Memorial Day was yesterday and this thread is discussing killing human beings in yet another war because of holes in some stupid software that SV won’t lift a finger to fix. If you offer such a suggestion to fix the woes of vulnerable infrastructure, I’m assuming you’re volunteering to go pull the trigger, right? Or were you expecting someone else to do that for you? Put down the assault keyboard and Clancy novel and get some perspective, subthread. Sheesh. Diddling around in the network of a company you didn’t know existed until five minutes ago is suddenly a capital offense because...Whoppers might run out?
    - toss1 5y ago
      You are absolutely right about the footguns, legacy cruft, and the joke-not-a-joke-it's-so-stupid that is modern web software development. That all needs to be fixed, and here at home However, it is also not merely about the Whoppers running out - this is just this morning's example. When even major "security" vendors can be turned into serious NatSec attack vectors, and much more critical infrastructure can also be attacked with ease, and they are doing it, it becomes a bona-fide NatSec issue. Like any other NatSec issue, this requires both serious hardening actions at home, and serious threats against bad actors abroad. Whether that involves, some kind of diplomacy, economic sanctions, targeted software attacks, targeted covert actions, or overt drone strikes, is up to the experts in those domains, but we do need to treat this as a serious NatSec issue that it is.

Your intent is to drop US missiles or troops on Russia-Eastern Europe/China-SE Asia? That may have different outcomes than what you're imagining.

by zdkl 5y ago

Your intent is to drop US missiles or troops on Russia-Eastern Europe/China-SE Asia? That may have different outcomes than what you're imagining.

nyc_pizzadev 5y ago

Right, that would be war. My understanding is that the gov has more covert methods... We hunted enemies before in other nations with some success.

f38zf5vdt 5y ago
Why not? $40 trillion dollars in weapons spending would easily save $10 billion dollars it would cost to hire security professionals on an annual salary to patch software and ensure that intrusion was more difficult.
Raidion 5y ago
This is exactly what they're doing now, they're just doing it with law enforcement agencies and not military. Military is honestly going to be worse at all of this, as they don't have the investigative capacity. This also ducks the very thorny political problems where Ukraine (never mind Russia!)are NOT going to allow US military involvement in domestic affairs, but do have agreements with Interpol that make this possible. Nobody wants extrajudicial military extraction squads acting on their turf. I'm sure the various 3 letter agencies (NSA, CIA, etc) are already involved to a degree that's not publicly known.
patrickdavey 5y ago
Are you suggesting hunting enemies in countries like Russia/China is going to go down well? How would you feel if they decided to declare some enemies on US soil and start hunting them on your patch? Unless your assumption is that Russia/China would agree to the hunting of course, but that does seem unlikely.
- matz1 5y ago
  >Are you suggesting hunting enemies in countries like Russia/China is going to go down well? Anything has risk of course, any hunting need be covert and expertly done. >How would you feel if they decided to declare some enemies on US soil and start hunting them on your patch? I would assume they already did that.
sorokod 5y ago
Military is a pretty blunt instrument, also, the US government is not the only government that has military and "more covert methods".

dcolkitt 5y ago

There's a continuum of responses existing between "do nothing" and "drop missiles". For example, it'd probably be relatively easy for special forces to assassinate key personnel, even deep within enemy territory.

babelfish 5y ago
Do you really see nothing wrong with the US military carrying out assassinations of foreign nationals, in foreign territory, on behalf of private companies who can't be bothered to just invest in a decent security team?
- yaw11 5y ago
  The vast majority of participants on this forum work in an environment where the shelf of footguns and gotchas and stupid legacy cruft that is modern software development inherently makes sense. Anyone fucking that house of cards up gets attention not because of the state of modern software development that led them here, but because clearly something is wrong with the external world and that should be handled with cops or whatever the next step after that is. It is in no way an indictment of modern software as practiced, from toolchain on up. Reminder: Memorial Day was yesterday and this thread is discussing killing human beings in yet another war because of holes in some stupid software that SV won’t lift a finger to fix. If you offer such a suggestion to fix the woes of vulnerable infrastructure, I’m assuming you’re volunteering to go pull the trigger, right? Or were you expecting someone else to do that for you? Put down the assault keyboard and Clancy novel and get some perspective, subthread. Sheesh. Diddling around in the network of a company you didn’t know existed until five minutes ago is suddenly a capital offense because...Whoppers might run out?
  - toss1 5y ago
    You are absolutely right about the footguns, legacy cruft, and the joke-not-a-joke-it's-so-stupid that is modern web software development. That all needs to be fixed, and here at home However, it is also not merely about the Whoppers running out - this is just this morning's example. When even major "security" vendors can be turned into serious NatSec attack vectors, and much more critical infrastructure can also be attacked with ease, and they are doing it, it becomes a bona-fide NatSec issue. Like any other NatSec issue, this requires both serious hardening actions at home, and serious threats against bad actors abroad. Whether that involves, some kind of diplomacy, economic sanctions, targeted software attacks, targeted covert actions, or overt drone strikes, is up to the experts in those domains, but we do need to treat this as a serious NatSec issue that it is.