3 ms·

Maybe I'm not the common use case, but when you say "because [Sublime] is that fast", what do you mean? Creating a new file in VSCode, for example, couldn't be

by m8s 5y ago

Maybe I'm not the common use case, but when you say "because [Sublime] is that fast", what do you mean? Creating a new file in VSCode, for example, couldn't be any faster. Is it the case that you close VSCode often? Is it booting the application that is slow? This isn't criticism by the way, I'm genuinely curious since I hear this a lot.

robenkleene 5y ago
VSCode is many times slower than most non-Electron apps, e.g., in the below examples it's 9 and 14 times slower: 1. It takes nine times as long as Vim to open a minified JavaScript file, and then format it with Prettier: https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1285631026648276993 https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1285631026648276993 2. It takes 14 times as long to open an empty text file than BBEdit: https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1257724392458661889 https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1257724392458661889 I'm just as surprised as you are that people do see it, that some people don't see it. I have no idea what the explanation is, but there's something radically different about me versus people who can tolerate VSCode's slowness (I'll use VSCode if I have to, but I'll avoid it if at all possible, just because it's slow).
- floydnoel 5y ago
  I think what the poster you replied to may have been referring to is that the marginal cost once the editor is open is roughly zero. If VS Code is being used, a user can hit Ctrl/Cmd-N and have a new empty text field in no time. Similarly, opening a text file is so quick that I can't perceive any passing of time between clicking on it in the file tree and seeing the file open. Perhaps users with slower computers have a different experience?
  - robenkleene 5y ago
    The second example I posted, illustrating that VSCode is 14 times slower than BBEdit, was opening a file with VSCode already open (it's not obvious, but VSCode was already open in both recordings, so this difference has nothing to do with its launch time). There's some truth to your comment though, in that VSCode's optimizations are very on rails, i.e., if you go the slightest bit off the beaten path (like I opened a file from the Finder, instead of from the sidebar, in the BBEdit/VSCode video), then VSCode approach to optimization falls apart (you can find accounts of the tricks VSCode uses to appear fast online, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors based around specific workflows -- I think making a new tab is actually the example they use). It wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason I perceive it as so slow is I expect every feature to be fast, not just to most common ones. And I think this is a perfectly fair metric to measure by. Emacs, Vim, BBEdit, and Sublime Text are all fast at everything they do, therefore I think it's fair to call VSCode a slow editor, even if technically it's average for a couple of features.
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    Often VS Code literally takes longer to process a single key input than Vim takes to start, load all plugins and open a session with multiple files on my machine. Granted, it's not a high-end workstation, just a laptop from 2016. But I don't think it's slow; when Vim first released it could have beaten the fastest supercomputer. Now of course that's a matter of perspective, but I hope I'm not the only one who thinks editing a package.json shouldn't make any modern PC sweat.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  Eats memory, too... Eight Gigabytes And Constantly Swapping!
- treeman79 5y ago
  I’m looking for jumping to definitions, etc. In a dynamic language. ruby. In IntelliJ command B will take me where something is defied, be it system library or in code base. Not perfect but close. I’ve not had luck getting vim to do this.
  - robenkleene 5y ago
    Vim has supported jump to definition via `ctags` for decades, works great for Ruby. Here's a tutorial from ThoughtBot (https://thoughtbot.com/upcase/videos/intelligent-navigation-with-ctags https://thoughtbot.com/upcase/videos/intelligent-navigation-...). Vim also supports the same LSP implementations that VSCode uses via Coc.nvim (https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim), which provides the same code navigation features that VSCode has, including jump to definition.
- wruza 5y ago
  Can’t speak for everyone, but 1,2 aren’t operations that I do hundreds of times a day even remotely. Otoh, I can see the difference^ in scrolling highlighted text between my 6600 and 8700 boxes in vim (which is my main tool; tried and ditched vscode for many reasons but speed, which is fine at both boxes). Maybe I could see that if I looked for it, but it’s not of any import. ^ not just slower, vim annoyingly skips scroll events if they arrive too fast. My system is configured for 6-7 lines per WM_SCROLL, and I guess that adds to the problem. As a result I have to scroll slower (at 6600 box) for vim to scroll faster. On editors in general: I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself. I believe that the sharpest tool is the one you sharpened yourself and for basic editing there is notepad2 and alikes. Vscode is much closer to that, but it’s too cumbersome to create/update personal extensions, so dumb vim hacks be it.
  - acomar 5y ago
    > On editors in general: I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself. this is what emacs is and what makes everything else feel so poor by contrast.
  - mariusor 5y ago
    > I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself I think 4coder[1] might be close to what you want. It's been popularized by being used in the HandMade Hero streams. [1] https://4coder.itch.io/4coder https://4coder.itch.io/4coder
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ljm 5y ago
I can open and close an instance of sublime whenever I need to, without having to keep it running somewhere. I'll only use it for tweaking the odd file here and there when I'm in Windows. I also literally only use VSCode when I have to work with Typescript.
debaserab2 5y ago
I still prefer sublime text for opening very large files or jotting quick notes. VSCode load times are heavily correlated to what files I had open last and what extensions I have installed that trigger because of my previously opened files. When I freshly install VSCode on a machine, it feels blazingly fast. A couple months later when I've loaded up a few linting extensions? Not so much. Of course, the power of these extensions is why I'm using VSCode in the first place. I've yet to see an IDE that can integrate these types of features and not slow-down in some aspect, and VSCode does seem to try to stay as lightweight as possible. VScode also often has notification prompts when I open it, either from extensions, or as popups generated from the editor itself. This doesn't add load time perse, but it does add to my mental perception of it's load time.

by m8s 5y ago

robenkleene 5y ago

VSCode is many times slower than most non-Electron apps, e.g., in the below examples it's 9 and 14 times slower: 1. It takes nine times as long as Vim to open a minified JavaScript file, and then format it with Prettier: https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1285631026648276993 https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1285631026648276993 2. It takes 14 times as long to open an empty text file than BBEdit: https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1257724392458661889 https://twitter.com/robenkleene/status/1257724392458661889 I'm just as surprised as you are that people do see it, that some people don't see it. I have no idea what the explanation is, but there's something radically different about me versus people who can tolerate VSCode's slowness (I'll use VSCode if I have to, but I'll avoid it if at all possible, just because it's slow).

floydnoel 5y ago
I think what the poster you replied to may have been referring to is that the marginal cost once the editor is open is roughly zero. If VS Code is being used, a user can hit Ctrl/Cmd-N and have a new empty text field in no time. Similarly, opening a text file is so quick that I can't perceive any passing of time between clicking on it in the file tree and seeing the file open. Perhaps users with slower computers have a different experience?
- robenkleene 5y ago
  The second example I posted, illustrating that VSCode is 14 times slower than BBEdit, was opening a file with VSCode already open (it's not obvious, but VSCode was already open in both recordings, so this difference has nothing to do with its launch time). There's some truth to your comment though, in that VSCode's optimizations are very on rails, i.e., if you go the slightest bit off the beaten path (like I opened a file from the Finder, instead of from the sidebar, in the BBEdit/VSCode video), then VSCode approach to optimization falls apart (you can find accounts of the tricks VSCode uses to appear fast online, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors based around specific workflows -- I think making a new tab is actually the example they use). It wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason I perceive it as so slow is I expect every feature to be fast, not just to most common ones. And I think this is a perfectly fair metric to measure by. Emacs, Vim, BBEdit, and Sublime Text are all fast at everything they do, therefore I think it's fair to call VSCode a slow editor, even if technically it's average for a couple of features.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  Often VS Code literally takes longer to process a single key input than Vim takes to start, load all plugins and open a session with multiple files on my machine. Granted, it's not a high-end workstation, just a laptop from 2016. But I don't think it's slow; when Vim first released it could have beaten the fastest supercomputer. Now of course that's a matter of perspective, but I hope I'm not the only one who thinks editing a package.json shouldn't make any modern PC sweat.
Koshkin 5y ago
Eats memory, too... Eight Gigabytes And Constantly Swapping!
treeman79 5y ago
I’m looking for jumping to definitions, etc. In a dynamic language. ruby. In IntelliJ command B will take me where something is defied, be it system library or in code base. Not perfect but close. I’ve not had luck getting vim to do this.
- robenkleene 5y ago
  Vim has supported jump to definition via `ctags` for decades, works great for Ruby. Here's a tutorial from ThoughtBot (https://thoughtbot.com/upcase/videos/intelligent-navigation-with-ctags https://thoughtbot.com/upcase/videos/intelligent-navigation-...). Vim also supports the same LSP implementations that VSCode uses via Coc.nvim (https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim), which provides the same code navigation features that VSCode has, including jump to definition.
wruza 5y ago
Can’t speak for everyone, but 1,2 aren’t operations that I do hundreds of times a day even remotely. Otoh, I can see the difference^ in scrolling highlighted text between my 6600 and 8700 boxes in vim (which is my main tool; tried and ditched vscode for many reasons but speed, which is fine at both boxes). Maybe I could see that if I looked for it, but it’s not of any import. ^ not just slower, vim annoyingly skips scroll events if they arrive too fast. My system is configured for 6-7 lines per WM_SCROLL, and I guess that adds to the problem. As a result I have to scroll slower (at 6600 box) for vim to scroll faster. On editors in general: I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself. I believe that the sharpest tool is the one you sharpened yourself and for basic editing there is notepad2 and alikes. Vscode is much closer to that, but it’s too cumbersome to create/update personal extensions, so dumb vim hacks be it.
- acomar 5y ago
  > On editors in general: I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself. this is what emacs is and what makes everything else feel so poor by contrast.
- mariusor 5y ago
  > I’d like to have an editor as a library for which I could create modes/cli/behaviors myself I think 4coder[1] might be close to what you want. It's been popularized by being used in the HandMade Hero streams. [1] https://4coder.itch.io/4coder https://4coder.itch.io/4coder

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ljm 5y ago

I can open and close an instance of sublime whenever I need to, without having to keep it running somewhere. I'll only use it for tweaking the odd file here and there when I'm in Windows. I also literally only use VSCode when I have to work with Typescript.

debaserab2 5y ago

I still prefer sublime text for opening very large files or jotting quick notes. VSCode load times are heavily correlated to what files I had open last and what extensions I have installed that trigger because of my previously opened files. When I freshly install VSCode on a machine, it feels blazingly fast. A couple months later when I've loaded up a few linting extensions? Not so much. Of course, the power of these extensions is why I'm using VSCode in the first place. I've yet to see an IDE that can integrate these types of features and not slow-down in some aspect, and VSCode does seem to try to stay as lightweight as possible. VScode also often has notification prompts when I open it, either from extensions, or as popups generated from the editor itself. This doesn't add load time perse, but it does add to my mental perception of it's load time.